Litespeed Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Hi folks, apologies if you feel you have done this one to death, but not being a true petrol-head like some of you out there, in simple terms, what can I do in terms of a Revo re-map for a GTI Ed 30 with DSG - it seems that the DSG is rate-limiting. Revo reckon it is possible (extract from an e-mail from them: "You are running the engine at a higher state of tune, however it’s all within safe parameters and does very little to effect the lifespan of the engine components. Bear in mind the engine can be effected more by the way it’s looked after: serviced, oil quality, whether it’s warmed up/cooled down, etc. The DSG transmission can see similar torque levels however there is a little more drive-train loss than the manual car so you don’t see quite as much power from a DSG car. Normally just under 300bhp". Is this reasonable? What are the safe limits for tuning the DSG box and is it actually worth doing. I am not really a tyre-squealer. Any advice welcome. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Welcome to Tyresmoke, Litespeed The reason the power and torque (they're both directly related) are knocked back is because the DSG 'box can't take as much torque as the manual one. There's not much difference, but, tbh, you wouldn't notice the difference in a straight line drag race (if that was your thing!) because of the quicker auto gearchange of the DSG car. Superchips have had 307bhp out of a manual Ed30. The Ed30 engine isn't as many people think an already remapped Golf GTI engine (from 200 to 230PS) - it's actually a detuned Audi S3 engine, which starts out at 265PS, so taking your Ed30 engine up to over 300 won't give it any problems. Basically, I wouldn't worry about causing damage to your car just by remapping it. Make sure it's looked after properly and you'll be fine HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I'd save my pennies, Ive found little difference apart from the noise in real world driving between my DSG ED30 and the old manual MKV R32 that was nicked. But each to their own, I can sacrifice the extra 60 or so neddies for a valid warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 There's a big difference, though, between a remapped turbo car and a NA one, like the R32 A remapped Ed30 has got SOOOOO much more torque and it will whip the arse off a stock Mk4 or Mk5 R32 - yes, even on a track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Mook, thanks for the information. It sounds like it is doable. I won't be thrashing the car - I am after more pull in the low-mid rev range. Have you come across any re-mapped DSG boxes that have blown? I must admit that I thought the Ed30 was the GTI engine and also the S3 was an upgraded GTI engine and the torque in the S3 was why they had not put out a tiptronic version. Do you or any tyresmokers have performance figures for a re-mapped MKV GTI Ed 30 DSG (or manual for that matter)? Mook, when you mention looking after the car, I am thinking of regular oil change (any advice on intervals and oil type) and running it on 98/99 Ron fuel. Is there any other advice you could give me (this is a completely new area for me) - my current car is the MKIV GTI PD 150 diesel (standard). Much appreciated - Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yeah I agree, the remapped ED30 is a massive difference, that would be the first thing I would do after collecting it. The R32 has a very linier power curve, where as the ED30 has a shove in teh back making it feel nearly as quick, but get that thing remapped and it feels a completely different ball game. It is crying out for tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 gIZZE, I have pretty much made up my mind, but am concerned on some suggestions that the DSG mox may not cope with the upgrade. Mind you, I assume the folks installing it and Revo know what they are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Richard, as long as you have it serviced regularly. There's also never any harm in having the oil changed more often than it technically needs to be. I used to change it every 8K miles on my R32 and change it every 5K miles on my S4 because that's more tweaked. Re performance figures - it depends what you're after, really. Expect a 0-60 of around 5.8s. Top end should be up to 155 or maybe 160. But really it's mid-range grunt where you'll properly notice the difference. For £500 or whatever Revo charge, it'll be well worth it. You would also be well advised to talk to www.autops.co.uk in Brackley - tell them you heard about them on Tyresmoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Cheers Mook - I'll take a look at autops. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 ....There's quite a few guys on GolfGTI UK forum who have remapped their Ed30's. LINK TO FORUM Even a Stage1 remap delivers so much torque that being DSG it won't be a real-world limitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Thankyou RedRobin - I don't want to end in tears when I blow my new toy up. I'll check the forum you suggest. Tx, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Hi, and welcome to Tyresmoke I had my S3 remapped by Superchips - best £500 I've spent in a logn time, they estimated 307-310bhp and it felt every bit of it - fantastic performance. and somethign you should see from the Golf. APS are also worth a look, they were looking at revised turbo back system which for the S3 would push figures to close on 330bhp The problem you will find is that each remap has slightly different charactoristics and you should try if you can to drive a few and see what you like. for me I like the 'OEM' feel of the Superchips, APS and Oettinger offerings (RSD in Daventry) as effectively they give you similar delivery of torque an power to the OEm but just more of it. Some other companies giev you huge amounts of torque up front which makes it feel a bit faster perhaps in teh traffic light grand prix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Thanks for the info everyone. I have booked in at VAGTech, Leighton Buzzard on Tuesday 4th April for a REVO upgrade. I'll let you know the outcome. Cheers, Litespeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Thanks for the info everyone. I have booked in at VAGTech, Leighton Buzzard on Tuesday 4th April for a REVO upgrade. I'll let you know the outcome. Cheers, Litespeed. Welcome to TSN, Litespeed. Regarding ECU remap, you SO won't regret it. Revo (or similar) stage 1 on my GTI is the best £500 (plus VAT) I've spent and when you add further performance mods, life just gets better and better IMO. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Hi Jon, you are absolutely right - I had a Revo re-map done yesterday - no more mid-life crisis!! I posted my first impression on PistonHeads: Hi folks, I went ahead with the Revo upgrade and basic switch on Tuesday for my Ed 30 DSG. I had a fairly sleepless night on Monday! I picked up a friend who has more experience of performance cars than me(he is a former Tuscan owner) who had a drive to test it in standard. He showed me a little more of what the car is capable of and was impressed with the pull and grip compared to previous Golfs. We arrived at VagTech, Soulbury, Leighton Buzzard just before noon, had a coffee and a good chat with John. John answered my questions fully and honestly and with a big smile on his face - he knew what was going to happen! Regarding the DSG Box, John showed me the details for the Vagtech Audi TT with DSG, currently pulling 420 bhp and 380 lbs torque - persuaded!! I asked for a good mid-range pull, gave him my keys and headed off to a nearby pub for lunch. I was back one hour later, a little apprehensive. John said he'd programmed it, tested it (pulling around 305bhp) and had a run and she was pulling nicely. With a big smile he handed over the keys. I idled out of Vagtech, turned left and headed off towards Stewkley. There was a little torque at low mph and then a superb incremental pull from 40mph upwards. I had no chance to push hard, but she just wanted to keep going and going - hard for someone so new to this game to describe. My friend bought her back and I had to remind him to hand over the keys when we got back to the workshop. Needless to say, we had an interesting journey home and I barely noticed the warning light telling me I only had 10 miles of petrol left! I did scare myself when I throttled it to overtake a van and had some spin and sideways torque - I will have to remind myself to be patient up to 40mph! Overall impression - amazing. As someone totally new to higher performance cars and re-mapping, this has completely sorted a number of cravings and bought me out of a mid-life crisis in one go! I just want to be in the car and I have a permanent grin on my face as I play "All Right now" by Free! This morning, a fairly new 535i tried to undertake me on the A1. Like a cat with a mouse, I played with it and then, when bored, switched down to sports mode, and disappeared down the A1. When I slowed and the 535 caught up, he looked at me quizically.....I mouthed 300bhp and pointed at the bonnet. Rather bemused, he nodded and went on his way - oh the satisfaction!! Would I recommend a re-map - oh yes as Churchill says! Would I recommend Revo - absolutely. I had naievely assumed that an re-map would be quite abrupt, not very subtle, loud and brash with some tyre squeel. Oh no, the Revo re-map is unassuming in low revs, subtle to the touch and then a powerful incremental pull through mid-range, only stopping when you run out of space. Would I recommend VagTech - absolutely. Good people, open, honest, friendly, answered my questions, listened to what I wanted and re-mapped my car very sweetly. I have much to learn, but am a willing pupil. Apologies to those who have seen this all before, but I feel like I did when I drove my H-reg MK III GTI for the first time, quite a few years ago..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Remaps are pretty smooth in general, in fact REVO is regarded as one of the more aggressive maps out there, I like them, Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted April 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Gizze, loving it. The missus has it in the week while I commute to the big smoke. It becomes mine at the weekend! It is fast, very very fast. Not had much competition yet............ Cheers Litespeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic_Tamer Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 The Ed30 engine isn't as many people think an already remapped Golf GTI engine (from 200 to 230PS) - it's actually a detuned Audi S3 engine, which starts out at 265PS, so taking your Ed30 engine up to over 300 won't give it any problems. Sorry, but that just aint true. The S3 engine has a specific reinforced cylinder block/crankcase, made from a stronger cast iron. Furthermore, it has a much stronger crank bedplate too. These components are NOT shared with the Ed30 or the Cupra engines. The main difference between the standard 200PS GTI engine, and the more powerful variants, is the larger K04 turbo, along with a few other minor hardware changes. The rough, "safe" limit for Ed30/Cupra engines is about 350PS, whereas the S3 engine can be reliably cranked up to 450PS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupramax Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Sorry, but that just aint true. The S3 engine has a specific reinforced cylinder block/crankcase, made from a stronger cast iron. Neithers that, the 2.0TFSi is all aluminium alloy... As far as I'm aware the only difference between the Leon/Ed30 and the S3 is that the Leon/Ed30 has a smaller intercooler and hence has slightly less top end potential when standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic_Tamer Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Neithers that, the 2.0TFSi is all aluminium alloy... Where did you get that info from? Because it is wrong. I can 100% assure you that the crankcase/cylinder block on all variants of the belt-driven 2.0TFSI is most definately a grey cast iron alloy - completely sans-aluminium. Only the cylinder head (along with some of the smaller components) is aluminium alloy. As far as I'm aware the only difference between the Leon/Ed30 and the S3 is that the Leon/Ed30 has a smaller intercooler and hence has slightly less top end potential when standard. Sadly, that is not true. Yes, the S3 does have a larger (and much better design and manufactured) intercooler compared to all the other 2.0TFSI users - but there are considerable differences, as well as considerable similarities too, between the various flavours of 2.0TFSI engines. If you download the official technical document for the Seat Cupra Champ. race car, you will see the detail concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupramax Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Where did you get that info from? Because it is wrong. OK, off your high horse mr know all. That info was from the 2.0TFSi self learn documentation supplied to dealer techs. I did have it in PDF format somewhere but cant find it at the moment. When I do I'll post it for your amusement. Also no need for the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4ttm4son Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 the 2.0TFSi is all aluminium alloy... If it's all aluminium, can it be alloy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic_Tamer Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 OK, off your high horse mr know all. I think you are the one who needs to get of their "high horse"! I posted FACTS. You posted bollox. You really need to actually learn to read, and properly digest what you are reading. That info was from the 2.0TFSi self learn documentation supplied to dealer techs. I did have it in PDF format somewhere but cant find it at the moment. When I do I'll post it for your amusement. Also no need for the Well, being as you havn't actually posted any links, you either can't be ar$ed, or more likely you have actually read the said document - and realised that I was actually correct, and it is you who is talking out of your tail. Here is the proof: The 2.0L FSI Turbocharged Engine - Design and Function - SSP821503 - read page 3. And if you have suddenly lost your ability to count page numbers, I'll quote the text: "Engine block The cylinder contact surfaces of the cast iron engine block are honed by means of liquid blasting." So, who was correct then? The words "cast iron" are a bit of a help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic_Tamer Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 If it's all aluminium, can it be alloy? I think he meant to use the word "all" to describe the engine in its entireity, though! But he was still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelMcTyson Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 So guys when you have finished, am i safe to have my ED30 remapped to 300bhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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