Barry Scott Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 More controversy before we get going! Just good design or is it rule breaking? :confused: BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | F1 rivals fear new boys Brawn GP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I keep on reading about this diffuser but would quite like one of the sites to show some diagrams of what it looks like and what the others look like so I have some idea of what the hell they're all on about. has anyone seen anything like that anywhere? Also how fast do people really reckon the Brawn is? i'd love to see them do well but the betting sites are offering evens on Lewis Hamilton scoring more points than Jenson Button this year (they make Button the favourite). I'm sorely tempted by a bet on Lewis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Scott Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I keep on reading about this diffuser but would quite like one of the sites to show some diagrams of what it looks like and what the others look like so I have some idea of what the hell they're all on about. has anyone seen anything like that anywhere? Not that this helps explain what they have a problem with! :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacake Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Also how fast do people really reckon the Brawn is? i'd love to see them do well but the betting sites are offering evens on Lewis Hamilton scoring more points than Jenson Button this year (they make Button the favourite). I'm sorely tempted by a bet on Lewis... I think Brawn were consistently showing the best part of a second advantage in testing. With no in-season testing allowed this year, it's going to be hard to make up ground, but with a bigger budget we could expect Ferrari, McLaren and a couple of the others to start to close in on them by halfway through the season. However, McLaren are coming from a long way back. The diffuser thing could be key, if it really does make the half second difference that Ferrari claim. Losing that much advantage would leave Brawn still in front, but within reach of clever strategy or balls-out driving by the other teams. This is the same old cycle of protest and advancement we know so well. If a team fits a new bit of tech, the quickest way for the other teams to deal with it is to protest, while rushing to develop their own versions. If it gets the green light, everyone copies the pioneer. If it gets the red light, the other teams in effect get a free advance at the expense of the pioneering team, with the possiblity of a bonus if points get docked as well. Edited March 25, 2009 by Teacake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Scott Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I think Brawn were consistently showing the best part of a second advantage in testing. With no in-season testing allowed this year, it's going to be hard to make up ground, but with a bigger budget we could expect Ferrari, McLaren and a couple of the others to start to close in on them by halfway through the season. However, McLaren are coming from a long way back.The diffuser thing could be key, if it really does make the half second difference that Ferrari claim. Losing that much advantage would leave Brawn still in front, but within reach of clever strategy or balls-out driving by the other teams. Hopefully it will all add up to an exciting and unpredictable season, no more two horse races! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not to sure either. The thing is some teams have had the issue reviewed by the FIA already and they said its fine. It seems other's teams haven't gone as far within the rules as others. I just wish it could be cleared up a lot faster than it is, this has been around for a few weeks, I posted about it in another thread. Why is it that F1 is all about contraversy other than damn good solid bloody racing these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 and I bet it gets a few more bums on seats to watch Sunday ....... I'll be up like a lark to watch the live action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordberg Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 A bit more from the Beeb this morning: BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Protest row sours opening F1 race PS: The Beeb's coverage has so far being excellent! Second to none IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I think Brawn were consistently showing the best part of a second advantage in testing. With no in-season testing allowed this year, it's going to be hard to make up ground, but with a bigger budget we could expect Ferrari, McLaren and a couple of the others to start to close in on them by halfway through the season. However, McLaren are coming from a long way back.The diffuser thing could be key, if it really does make the half second difference that Ferrari claim. Losing that much advantage would leave Brawn still in front, but within reach of clever strategy or balls-out driving by the other teams. This is the same old cycle of protest and advancement we know so well. If a team fits a new bit of tech, the quickest way for the other teams to deal with it is to protest, while rushing to develop their own versions. If it gets the green light, everyone copies the pioneer. If it gets the red light, the other teams in effect get a free advance at the expense of the pioneering team, with the possiblity of a bonus if points get docked as well. Totally agree Teacake - good summary. Would love to see a complete mix up this season, support Ferrari but love to see underdogs do well and get up there. Roll on Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 You find this sort of 'bitching' at every level of the sport. When i was racing power boats exactly the same sort of thing went on, and the rumour mill started.. it's a shame, but does add to the drama on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 ..it does add to the drama on the day Agreed, I enjoy the behind the scenes technical battle of F1, and it's a nice antidote to the bland "for sure the car is good and for sure the team is working hard" b0ll0cks. Go Lewis ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Dont care if the car is 20 seconds a lap quicker than anything else. The biggest factor is Button will be driving it. He hasn't the skill or the balls to overtake my mum in her Honda CRV let alone a top driver. There is no way i would put any money on him unless its for a mid table finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Billy I think you've convinced me to stick some money on Hamilton in the Hamilton vs Button bet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordberg Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Dont care if the car is 20 seconds a lap quicker than anything else. The biggest factor is Button will be driving it. He hasn't the skill or the balls to overtake my mum in her Honda CRV let alone a top driver. There is no way i would put any money on him unless its for a mid table finish. What evidence do you have to support your outspoken view? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Having looked around a few places I think I found a little more info about what the issue is, not sure how good my explanation will be though... Apparently there is a fixed permittable width for the diffuser on the rear of the car (which the teams have adhered to) however they've done some jiggery pokery with the design of the bodywork on either side of the diffuser to effectively give them more downforce, this means that these parts although not part of the diffuser are acting like a diffuser. And the other teams don't like it because they didn't think of it first. I suspect that if 7 teams had come up with the idea and 3 hadn't that the 3 wouldn't of kicked up a stink and simply amended their own designs to fit but as it's the other way round the majority are causing a stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Latest on the news today was that it has been thrown out, and the design approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 The biggest factor is Button will be driving it. He hasn't the skill or the balls to overtake my mum in her Honda CRV let alone a top driver. There is no way i would put any money on him unless its for a mid table finish. really, he's actually not that bad behind the wheel - skill/balls, got those boxes ticked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 And now Branson comes to the party! Is that now that Brawn F1 are looking tasty ?? Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Group to sponsor Brawn GP - Times Online Never known such a dramatic start to the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 And now Branson comes to the party! Is that now that Brawn F1 are looking tasty ??Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Group to sponsor Brawn GP - Times Online Never known such a dramatic start to the season. you'd never be able to call Branson 'fickle', would you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 you'd never be able to call Branson 'fickle', would you One thing for Richard he does like a show so could be quite a fun major sponsor, watch this space for Virgin stunts and stuff all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 What evidence do you have to support your outspoken view? :confused: Too many times i have seen Button close up behind far slower cars and he never makes the pass. You may say aerodynamics but others manage it. Another interesting thing i see from race to race is how Button tails off towards the end of the race, maybe fitness or maybe his beard grows so long he has trouble seeing. These are just my observations and sorry this wouldnt hold up in a court of law as "Evidence". Just my humble opinion. Last year Hamilton had the best car but you could still see he has real talent, i dont think we will see that with Jenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Too many times i have seen Button close up behind far slower cars and he never makes the pass. You may say aerodynamics but others manage it.Another interesting thing i see from race to race is how Button tails off towards the end of the race, maybe fitness or maybe his beard grows so long he has trouble seeing. These are just my observations and sorry this wouldnt hold up in a court of law as "Evidence". Just my humble opinion. Last year Hamilton had the best car but you could still see he has real talent, i dont think we will see that with Jenson JB had one of the worst cars on the grid last year which Honda did not even bother updating for most of the season choosing instead to concentrate on the 2009 car. Will be interesting to see if LH still "shines" as brightly in a car not so dominating!! lets be honest they are all seriously good to even get on that grid and I do think JB with decent tools will come alive this year. Fingers crossed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Unless Button and Lewis drove the same car it is hard to see who would be quicker/better. The nearest thing we have is the Top Gear times, anyone want to take a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Unless Button and Lewis drove the same car it is hard to see who would be quicker/better. The nearest thing we have is the Top Gear times, anyone want to take a look? Always subjective even in the same car as drivers all seem to favour diff types of car and set up. TG track I think LH just pipped him but it was wet but also a diff "reasonably priced car" so hard to use that as a benchmark. Hope this years 2009 aero changes make it easier to race each other. KERS could be very interesting once that gets sorted and works!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Too many times i have seen Button close up behind far slower cars and he never makes the pass. You may say aerodynamics but others manage it.Another interesting thing i see from race to race is how Button tails off towards the end of the race, maybe fitness or maybe his beard grows so long he has trouble seeing. These are just my observations and sorry this wouldnt hold up in a court of law as "Evidence". Just my humble opinion. Last year Hamilton had the best car but you could still see he has real talent, i dont think we will see that with Jenson I'd agree with your view on button on recent form, but when he first came on the scene he did a very good job. He showed on many occasions that he is a true and very ballsy racer. He might not be as good as the very best but easily as good as the likes of Coulthard IMO and beyond on his best days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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