Waylander Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Not a reference to a light bulb in sight....oh..... I figured: since I am going to have alarm company probably chasing wires into walls and will be redecorating post Easter now might be time to jump in and have AV and Networking wiring sorted too. Managed to get the Virgin guy to run a 10m ethernet cable from router (in downstairs front office) to the back living room which it happily lives in the Xbox. Ideally I would like to run wired networks up to each bedroom, probably terminating at a network socket (rather than an RJ45 plug). In the master bedroom I will probably have the old xbox to run as a media player from the PC as well (as the 360 in the living room). Getting from the office up the front bedroom can run same track as the phone extension (which comes down from there) and in the same room there is a run up into the loft so will probably run the cables for the other 3 bedrooms up to the loft and across and down to each room (I think!). I am guessing the way to do it is to get an Ethernet switch (4/8 port) down in the office and run the Cat5e cables up from there. Regarding chasing cables etc the only other thing I could think of was chasing AV cables for rear speakers up into the ceiling at the front of the room from the amp, across the ceiling and down into the back to corners....can't think how else I might run the rear speaker cables otherwise. Any suggestions/comments on above? Do you think I still need a dedicated Media Centre/Slingbox type thingy in addition to the xbox/pc config? Anything else you recommend I might consider cabling size instead/at the time time? Ta+++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Wired network, why not run 1 x cat cable up to the 1st floor and fan out cables from a local hub rather than having piles of cable extending from the main router / hub? As for Av why can't you run in the floor void? Have you considered Sonos as a AV solution? If you really want everything wired I'd suggest you consider adding in a TV amp and pushing the UHF TV signal out to all rooms that could need a Freeview signal in the future. When you get toward bulk cabling i tend to suggest going with a created riser rather than chasing walls in various locations. You are likely to have a riser of sorts for water mains, ch, electrical cabling and that could be expanded to take all the Cat wiring, TV, telephone (and alarm) cabling. Just remember that although you can run data, phone and tv together you need 'mechanical seperation' either a 50mm gap or a barrier from electrical cable. Plastic trunking or even a wood baton divider counts as a barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks Chri5. Yep it was just a question of where I put the ethernet switch (if I read your first bit right). The phone line comes down to the office via the same route as the gas pipes and I was planning to send the Cat 5 up via the same route so no chasing involved here. As the room it will go to (and thereafter using the track up to the loft from where a tv ariel comes) will eventually be the guest bedroom I figured having the switch downstairs might be simpler - but no bones either way. The 50mm gap may put paid to me running the Cat5 via the same route as the phone cable though! Speakers - yeah not thought that bit through at all. The floor (it is an extension) is concrete I think (will lift in a corner to check) hence ceiling seemed better. To be honest I was thinking of bunging the alarm guy some beer money to route when he runs the alarm cable. Sonos is definitely in my plans to look into as a sound solution in the house. Currently I have an amp and 5 speaker set so anything I would use is helpful to the pocket (I figured having the wires in situ for the speakers could be potentially beneficial and no hard either way?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 What I meant to say was that comms, data and TV can live together, but can't live together with electric mains. They can run the same route if 50mm separation or a physical barrier is fabricated such as a baton divider or containment such as plastic trunking. There is of course options for wifi extenders, repeaters and the like that make wifi over the full size of the property very viable. We use one of these via the Virgin Superhub and it works fine. Netgear WN3000RP Universal Wi-Fi Range Extender review - PC Advisor Since we have 4 iPhones, 2 iPads, a nexus unit and a couple of laptops (on top of the i7 dell and the older unit) a mixed cable and wifi solution was always necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Cheers Chri5. I remember the discussion about wifi extenders that work with Virgin in this Forum and that is ALSO going to be employed - as you say for tablets/laptops etc - SWMBO is already giving me grief about wifi signal in the bedroom! The wired thing is just an itch I have wanted to scratch and I figured getting 100m of Cat5e with the appropriate acrutriments for ~£20 as well as possible easily accesible runs from office up to 1st floor and from that room to loft was just too good an opportunity to pass up. Having a quick look, I think Sonos is going to be purchased (again with SWMBO having seen it at a friend's house I might have little choice although we have no iphones....) but possibly for music around the house; for TV surround sound if I can get some nice installer to run 2 cables across the room across the ceiling void I might just do that. Even flat AV cables under the carpet I figured might be visible. I just haven't had a new toy to play with in ages (not even a new phone - hurry up Nokia and end the 920 deal with EE!) so the geek in me is casting about with old skool solutions while I might be able to get away with it Still trying to work in the need to have a separate media centre in the loft - but I am resigned to not needing it with the hardwired xboxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Always pull in more cables than you need, and at the very least, lay a draw wire for future. Dont forget a BT point behind TV for SKY if you ever need it. My cables are direct from the router, without faceplates (less joints, and less clutter of faceplates) but I have allowed my cabling to easily be pulled back into the loft if I run out of ports and need a network switch. The one function I would not be without now is the HDMI cable from my PC in an adjacent room to my 42" Plasma TV. From my sofa, I can start and stop pc, and fully control it easily and quickly with an iPhone, both keyboard and mouse functions. I use it regularly streaming content from my PC or the internet. Top Tip. MK 1 gang grid switch plates without the switch ( Or a basic MK Logic 1 gang with switch unclipped) make excellent inexpensive outlet plates behind TV's etc without having to drill/file nasty blank plates. They are great for HDMI cables etc where you do not want to cut the end off the cable, but require a neat factory smooth rectangular outlet on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I have a 24 port patch panel in the loft. (~£25) 16 port gigabit switch (~£20) CAT5 going to all bedrooms and office. Also go down to TV to another switch (TV, PS3, xbox, server, PVR). CAT5 to conversatory. CAT5 to kitchen. (CAT5 pretty much everywhere). Top tip (which I didn't do) get the CAT5 to go to a cupboard, so that if you choose to plug in something like a wifi repeater then you dont have it out on display!) If you are looking to go freeview then I have something like an antiference 8 way amp with F connectors on it (also does FM, new ones now do DAB as well). MK do di (or tri) plexer outputs - so you can have 1 coax to a point where TV,FM/DAB and sky (if you do that) come out on one plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thanks Guys. Plenty of food for thought. DaveP I don't entirely understand why I would need a patch panel though in a home environment. The wires from each room are running to the switch and I then run 1 wire from the switch to the router. Why do I need the extra junction of the panel? Mind you what you have just made me realise is that I should get a 4 port switch to plug the ethernet cable behind the tv into so that vbox/sky box and future smart tv can all have connections. Paul - same again what purpose does the MK 1 panel provide? HDMI cables running from sky box/tivo/xbox to tv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Hi the MK, 1 gang grid plates, make a nice outlet for cables with plugs to exit the wall. It keeps things tidy. I have brought my HDMI, SPDIF, CAT5 and Satalite Cables down the wall , into a back box, and out the faceplate shown. Cables like the HDMI and Sky benifit from the least joints possible. If I had a faceplate socket for every cable, or even multi outlet faceplates, I wouldnt be able to hide them behind the TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 A slightly more professional way would be deployment of a brush plate. AV Brush Face Plates : AV Installs Ltd, Professional Audio Visual Sales and Installation Services Patch panels only really become needed when you flood wire a property, say data sockets in all four corners of a room. Then when you move the TV, desk, furniture etc you can re-patch to the new socket for the new kit position. If you happy that rooms have static positions for stuff like TVs, desktops, repeaters, hubs, then really it becomes a bit of over kill. By that I mean why have 20 double cat 5 sockets wired in, when 10 might never be used. The more dynamic a room is the more multiple socket one time only installation appeals. Hence why commercial spaces with constant re jig of desk, printer and other items tend to have flood wiring. Its a family house so a fare half point is to deploy a double cat 5 in each room somewhere that will feed service discretely on to a device via a fly lead. Fly leads are available in 1-10m lengths, and good positioning of the cat 5 socket should mean small ones which cost only £2-3 each would be fine. Hard wired BT lines need three sockets in a house, one for the Sky, one for the Dect base station for phones anywhere and one in the office where the dsl / line based Internet (if no cable) is required. Fax and any other hard wired phone type tend to be at that position as well. All I can really say is that I would run at least 1 cat5 and one TV cable to each room that has a potential need. You need to work out what rooms they are! If you intend to have a man shed plan that it Once I'd have ruled out the bathrooms, but some folk do have Internet connected TV to watch while bathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I thought a patch panel would be easier to wire up than putting plugs on each of the wires (and does seem to work well in that regard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 It sure makes sense to terminate modules on each end of a cable if you haven't got the skill, a set of crimps and the necessary 8w mod tap or other variant continuity tester. Termination is easier to do, but it does add in the need for a lead for user end and network connection end. The easiest and cheapest DIY set up is running in pre made fly leads, but that gives issues with spare cable length and getting plug ended cables through holes, walls, floors and voids. With my trusty rj45 crimper and glasses on, terminating plugs on cat5 cables is 8/10 right 1st time and takes a couple of minutes at most. A DIY level crimper tool is £8, diy tester £15, plugs are £3 for 50, boots about 10p each. Face plates, modules, back boxes, chasing boxes in wall, add up to a higher cost point. Thinking about it (brain has been off duty for 10 days) another known advantage of the panel and sockets is that there is no really prospect of mechanical damage to the main run, whereas the plug on either end method does occasionally have issues with the user damaging the cable or plug being pulled off the cable. Its very much how you want to do it, how much time you want to spend and whether you want it to be seen as value adding fixed infrastructure or just a DIY solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Thanks so much Chris and all of you for the continued input. As my "itch" was to have a network point in each (bed)room I think I would prefer to have cable runs terminating in a socket rather than plug points. It will also give me some flexibility as you say being able to use different length patch cables if the machine needs to be elsewhere. Whether I put the switch in the bedroom directly above the office or in the loft depends on if there is an electicity point in the loft (there are plenty of lights up there!) and if I can bear the thought of crimping the ends for the switch for the first time in the dark furthest corner of the loft it is likely to be in or not...... Actually thinking about it - does a patch panel have a single port I plug into the router? If so I might go down that route! I have also bought that TP Link nano router from the other discussion thread to use as an extender. As you sat Dave I will look to have a run into every room possible (no harm!) btw any views/comments on whether or not I need a NAS as well a the Xboxes as media players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 So instead of crimping up loads of plugs in the loft, you just punch in the wires to the back of the (colour coded, so very easy) patch panel. Surely xboxes connecting to a NAS so that you store your music/videos in one place. I replaced my NAS with an Acer Revo (and 1.5tb & 2tb external drives) running Linux (a very power efficient solution). This gives the most flexibility, but is far from user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Is there any need to wire houses up with Cat5 these days? We used to do it when I fitted satellite dishes/CCTV & Alarms etc many years ago, as running one cable is much the same as another, no idea what people did with them 15+ years ago though. Now everything is wireless, what is the point of having wired connections? My house is averagely sized, I can get a useable wireless signal wherever I am in or around the house from the router situated in the downstairs hall. Plus with the advent of 4G and whatever else is coming in the future, doesn't it make running Cat5 a largely pointless and destructive exercise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Depends. Light user - you are probably right. But for shifting large amounts of data. Lots of video. Or just somebody who is impatient. Then wired at truly 1gbit and not 50mbps can make a difference. We had work done on the house, so the cables went in then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Wireless is **** for shifting a lot of data - even say a 4Gb movie image takes a while over wireless, certainly compared to 1Gbps wired Fast Ethernet. 802.11ac is due to be ratified any minute (if it hasn't already), and that should help ease the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scillyisles Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 802.11ac is only due to be fully ratified in late 2013. Current draft is version 4. Wireless is pretty useless as soon as you get high broadband speeds (BT Infinity at 50Mb or above ) or when you want to move large amounts of data or when you want very low latency (game playing) Luckily my house had Cat5E cables preinstalled to each room and I have just finished wiring up the faceplates and have a true 1GB connection in every room. Ethernet over powerline (ring main) is better than wireless in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yup, speed-reading on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Luckily my house had Cat5E cables preinstalled to each room and I have just finished wiring up the faceplates and have a true 1GB connection in every room. Funny then that Cat 6 sells, I thought 5E was upto, but rarely true 1Gb and hence why Corps demand Cat 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scillyisles Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Funny then that Cat 6 sells, I thought 5E was upto, but rarely true 1Gb and hence why Corps demand Cat 6 I think you need to read up a little - Cat5E is rated at 1Gb and in my experience provides true 1Gb provided you use good quality cable and terminators. All the connections have been tested and are giving true 1Gb speed. Corps tend to want the latest and greatest as the cost of putting in cable afterwards is large compared to the extra cost on fitout. When I specified the structured cabling in our office premises, I looked at Cat 7 cabling but eventually settled on Cat 6. Taken from Wiki " Compared with Cat 5 and Cat 5e, Cat 6 features more stringent specifications for crosstalk and system noise.[citation needed] The cable standard provides performance of up to 250 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet), 1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX (Gigabit Ethernet) and 10GBASE-T (10-Gigabit Ethernet)." Edited January 3, 2013 by scillyisles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Funny then that Cat 6 sells, I thought 5E was upto, but rarely true 1Gb and hence why Corps demand Cat 6 True enough but there's loads of businesses out there running 1Gb over CAT5 standard with success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I know, and agree. Is 1 Gb/s on Cat 5 not a bit like doing 100 mph on a night time dark B road ? You might get there / might not! With a lean towards not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 The comical data centres are the ones that put CAT6 everywhere to patch panels and then order bog standard CAT5 cables :smashfreak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) So instead of crimping up loads of plugs in the loft, you just punch in the wires to the back of the (colour coded, so very easy) patch panel.Surely xboxes connecting to a NAS so that you store your music/videos in one place. I replaced my NAS with an Acer Revo (and 1.5tb & 2tb external drives) running Linux (a very power efficient solution). This gives the most flexibility, but is far from user friendly. Re Patch Panel - Am I understanding this correctly - the runs from the rooms would be punched into the patch panel but then I would buy short pre-moulded RJ45 patch leads to connect the other side of each connection on the panel to the switch? (otherwise how am i saving crimping to get onto the switch?? Confused!) Good point about NAS - I currently just use the data (non-system) hdd on my PC as the network share but a dedicated media share would be nice. Might get something like a WD Livebook ? The other thing that occurred to me is that I should get a 5 port Switch for the living room and plug the ethernet cable from the router into that rather than directly into the xbox, and I will then have ports for the sky box and any possible Smart TV etc Tipex regarding destructive - I am due to have a wired alarm fitted and will have runs for that to all the rooms concerned anyway so ideally will get those guys to do the runs. As most of it will be across the loft I don't see there being very much destruction involved although if I can get the wires cut in rather than in a corner it will be even cooler Edited January 4, 2013 by Waylander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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