Tut...Tut...Tut...

[garcon magnifique]

I reckon there's a competition between the teams to see what they can get EJ to repeat on tv.

[Soulboy]

The EPA announced that should the allegations be proven, Volkswagen Group could face fines of up to US$37,500 per vehicle (approximately $18B).

[Mook]

It all becomes just telephone numbers, doesn't it.

 

The impact on investors in VW group will be massive - thinking pension funds etc - and not just VW, the whole group will feel an impact and there's loads of them - VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Porsche, Lambo, Bentley and some more I think!

[cruiser647]

I think my next A8 should be a bit cheaper............. 

[cruiser647]

VW were really pushing diesel in the US.  Which might be why they did this.  Not sure if the other companies are pushing it so hard, so for them, there was/is no need to cheat the figures.

[Soulboy]

Another interesting spin off on this story.....

The Italian consumer rights group Altroconsumo is due to press its case for a class action suit against VW and Fiat on 2 October, after laboratory tests showed that fuel consumption and CO2 emissions from the VW Golf 1.6 and Fiat Panda 1.2 were up to 50% higher than claimed.

Altroconsumo wants the German car firm to pay damages of €502 (£365) to the owner of a VW Golf, in a case that raises the possibility of widescale compensation payouts by the car industry.

[Tipex]

Eddie Jordan. He knows everything about everyone in F1 - in the same way as everything on Facebook is always true

Lol, it was a very opportunist question, they had him on to talk about JB, and of course, an F1 car is just a car right? So EJ must know about VW emmisions as well.

If Fiat get implicated in anything that opens the doors up to FCA group vehicles - Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Ram Trucks, Abarth, Mopar, SRT, Ferrari, Maserati.

They had only specifically mentioned VW's earlier, but I notice they are now talking about Audi, the A3 in particular.

Not much talk about Seat or Skoda, but then it's all US centric still really and I'm not sure how much presence those brands have in the US.

I bought a new Skoda Superb in 2003, wonder how long until the PPI type texts and phone calls start coming!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Tipex

[Mook]

It doesn't surprise me about the Audi - it's specifically the 2.0 TDI engine from 2009-2015 which they whack in most all their cars.

 

Porsche are now also being investigated, however.  I assume they use the same  engineering group to write their ECU software...

[Andy_Bangle]

Looks like everyone is thinking the same thing! Bought £4k and they are now at £4856!

I'm unsurprised by the share price drop. (-30% over the past few days)

The issue may not just affect the US but possibly Europe too. Up to 11m vehicles globally. The company has already taken a Eur6.5bn (billion) charge to cover the cost of service measures. This will almost certainly increase according to analysts. I dread to think how much the regulatory penalties, civil litigation and market share losses are going to cost.

I don`t know if or by how much further the share price will fall but I do not think it is a situation with a swift resolution. I would not be bargain hunting in this space. Take the short term gain and bank the money.

[Riz]

Wonder if Volkswagen will still build the Golf R400     lol

Edited September 22, 2015 by Riz

[Cuprabob]

Wonder if Volkswagen will still build the Golf R400 lol

A post from another forum you are a member of Riz

http://www.r32oc.com/topic/189506-ordered-a-new-car/page__pid__2090034#entry2090034

[Cuprabob]

If VW were the only company doing this, another manufacturer would have grassed them up as they all test each other's cars in various scenarios. The fact no one has makes me think they have all been at it unless of course a competitor brought it to the EPA's attention:-)

Edited September 22, 2015 by Cuprabob

[CarMad]

No other manufacturer has said anything though have they yet. 

 

I did a search earlier and BMW, Mercedes et al haven't said a word and are staying well out of it. Thats either to let VW get all the initial flack and bad PR so when they come clean everyone just says yeah I knew they were all at it. Or it really is only VW that out a specific detection into algorithm into the ECU?

[cruiser647]

Do the others sell many diesels in the US? 

[cruiser647]

Any previous history of US manufacturers being caught out on MPG/emissions and being fined?

 

When I say fined - I mean BP style.  Feck-up in US = US company fine v Foreign company fine syndrome.

 

 

It will also be the end of VW US.  It took Audi years to get back into the US market after the car show 'unintended acceleration' thing even after the girl admitted she made put the car in gear!

[Tipex]

No other manufacturer has said anything though have they yet. 

 

I did a search earlier and BMW, Mercedes et al haven't said a word and are staying well out of it. Thats either to let VW get all the initial flack and bad PR so when they come clean everyone just says yeah I knew they were all at it. Or it really is only VW that out a specific detection into algorithm into the ECU?

BMW released a statement to the press, as did PSA group, both stating that their vehicles were in no way affected by this issue, they read the statements out on the news mid afternoon.

[ashleywater]

Yet another example of the Yanks trying to destroy their european opposition

 

First it was BP now it is VW

 

It was an American outfit that BP sub contracted to run the rig that blew up, yet BP carried the financial penalties and future commercial losses all to the benefit of Exxon 

 

Now we have VW getting financially slaughtered by the biggest gas guzzling polluters on the planet over of all things "Emissions" data FFS

[CarMad]

BMW released a statement to the press, as did PSA group, both stating that their vehicles were in no way affected by this issue, they read the statements out on the news mid afternoon.

Anyone got a link to it I can't find it or any comment from anyone else. 

[CarMad]

Yet another example of the Yanks trying to destroy their european opposition

 

First it was BP now it is VW

 

It was an American outfit that BP sub contracted to run the rig that blew up, yet BP carried the financial penalties and future commercial losses all to the benefit of Exxon 

 

Now we have VW getting financially slaughtered by the biggest gas guzzling polluters on the planet over of all things "Emissions" data FFS

What a load of rubbish.

 

This was actually found when the EPA looked at confirming VWs claim to help them validate it not to try and catch them out. They wanted to show that diesel could be made to be clean, this was back in early 2014. 

 

However what they found was they emitted over 40 times the legal limit. VW have then spent the last year giving them the run around before coming clean at the start of this month. 

 

I'd hardly say they are going after them, almost exactly the opposite. 

[Mook]

Yet another example of the Yanks trying to destroy their european opposition

 

First it was BP now it is VW

 

It was an American outfit that BP sub contracted to run the rig that blew up, yet BP carried the financial penalties and future commercial losses all to the benefit of Exxon 

 

Now we have VW getting financially slaughtered by the biggest gas guzzling polluters on the planet over of all things "Emissions" data FFS

 

WTF?!

 

There's regulations in the US for selling cars and VW flagrantly flaunted those regs to their own benefit and the US is to blame?  Come on, are you serious?

[ashleywater]

WTF?!

 

There's regulations in the US for selling cars and VW flagrantly flaunted those regs to their own benefit and the US is to blame?  Come on, are you serious?

 

Where BP are concerned definitively yes

 

Where VW are concerned if no other manufacturers are found guitly of malfeasance or exposed in regards to emmissions claims & actual realtime performance data in the US then again yes

 

If however VW are not the only manufacturer in excess of current emmission regulations for diesel engine cars being supplied into the US and are exposed as such by EPA, I will lip up fatty on the hypothesis

 

Just remember that this is the country where reject Fracking water does not come under any EPA or environmental regulation and is actually sold as road de icer in Northern American states, you have to remember its all about the greenback, and not the environment, so when they get on their environmental high horse excuse my cynical scepticism

[cruiser647]

Where BP are concerned definitively yes

 

Where VW are concerned if no other manufacturers are found guitly of malfeasance or exposed in regards to emmissions claims & actual realtime performance data in the US then again yes

 

If however VW are not the only manufacturer in excess of current emmission regulations for diesel engine cars being supplied into the US and are exposed as such by EPA, I will lip up fatty on the hypothesis

 

Just remember that this is the country where reject Fracking water does not come under any EPA or environmental regulation and is actually sold as road de icer in Northern American states, you have to remember its all about the greenback, and not the environment, so when they get on their environmental high horse excuse my cynical scepticism

 

There is some truth to this.

If it was a US firm, they wouldn't come down so hard on them

But being a foreign firm the EPA will come down hard.

 

With BP, BP have had to pay all sorts of false claims (according to BP and stuff in the press).  I expect VW to have the same issues.

[jimdiesel]

Just a couple of points for clarity.

This is not about CO2 emissions and fuel consumption so there are no taxation issues.

NOx is not currently used as a taxation measure in this or any other country (I am happy to be corrected).

The NOx limits are a yes/no trigger on if a vehicle can go on sale in a country / region.

The 40 times figure quoted is a headline friendly flash figure rather than an realistic actual variance.

Sorry if this is teaching to suck eggs, but some of the discussion indicated that some people were slightly missing the facts.

[Mook]

Where VW are concerned if no other manufacturers are found guitly of malfeasance or exposed in regards to emmissions claims & actual realtime performance data in the US then again yes

 

If however VW are not the only manufacturer in excess of current emmission regulations for diesel engine cars being supplied into the US and are exposed as such by EPA, I will lip up fatty on the hypothesis

 

Just remember that this is the country where reject Fracking water does not come under any EPA or environmental regulation and is actually sold as road de icer in Northern American states, you have to remember its all about the greenback, and not the environment, so when they get on their environmental high horse excuse my cynical scepticism

 

I can't see how you can mix the denial of environmental issues in the US (which are a whole topic in themselves) and the US directly "destroying their European opposition".  Yes there are issues w.r.t. environmental denial, but it's got nothing to do with someone at VW saying "you know what, we've been cheating your tests all this time".

 

I'm not saying that some in the US don't want to stop competition from outside, I just fail to see how you can even start to cite this as the US directly attacking VW.

[garcon magnifique]

The point about US protectionism is largely hypothetical. i.e. will US authorities hit VW harder than they would a domestic company? The suspicion may be they will but we'll never know unless Ford/GM are found to have cheated in the same way.