Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) BMW in the same tests in the US passed and came under the limitVW passed the test too, it's only that they've been caught out (not sure how?) that we know.I'd be surprised if VW are the only manufacturer to have done this, their engines can't be that far behind everyone else's. Edited September 25, 2015 by Tipex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 VW passed the test too, it's only that they've been caught out (not sure how?) that we know. The whole story is here - found out by accident and the info was passed on. Take 5 minutes out to read it http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/23/researcher-how-vw-got-caught/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 For those that want a full explaination of the difference between Diesel and Petrol and what VW have done have a look at the link below. http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-diesel-challenges.html The knock on effect of turning it back on will be small, a bit more fuel used or a little less power it seems how much less of either is up for debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Form an orderly line to line the legal professions pockets folks, because you were "Lied" to To everyone out there claiming that VW or any other car manufacturer has sold them a car on the premise of a porky pie and it has broken some some form of Moral contract that the two of you shared and it has effectively ruined your life Get a feckin grip FFS I think you will find a disclaimer at the bottom of any specification that they reserve the right to change the specifications quoted at any time? What VW did was totally wrong, but all this personal "wronged" bullsh1t flying around is just plain pathetic, put yourself in the shoes of a VW employee for a minute consider the amount of economic woe and job losses this has the potential to cause, it could have massive ramifications as some have pointed out to any Economic recovery, as I seem to recall we have a large and successful motor industry in this country, that means your jobs and your prosperity being affected by the ramifications of an all out legal assault on the motor industry, as it appears that other manufacturers will be affected in due course Finally all this "Mc Carthyism" b0llox about my manufacturers not guilty of any offence in this regard me Lord? Really so they havn't nobbled you with discredited fuel consumption figures for years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Looks like the BMW "test" was the emissions produced whilst going up a steep incline with a fully loaded car. Their shares have bounced back this morning. No need to sell your motor MrMe! Yes, I'm pleased to see that. They did immediately refute the claim and it would have been rather silly of them to do so if they'd been as criminal as VAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Form an orderly line to line the legal professions pockets folks, because you were "Lied" to To everyone out there claiming that VW or any other car manufacturer has sold them a car on the premise of a porky pie and it has broken some some form of Moral contract that the two of you shared and it has effectively ruined your life Get a feckin grip FFS I think you will find a disclaimer at the bottom of any specification that they reserve the right to change the specifications quoted at any time? What VW did was totally wrong, but all this personal "wronged" bullsh1t flying around is just plain pathetic, put yourself in the shoes of a VW employee for a minute consider the amount of economic woe and job losses this has the potential to cause, it could have massive ramifications as some have pointed out to any Economic recovery, as I seem to recall we have a large and successful motor industry in this country, that means your jobs and your prosperity being affected by the ramifications of an all out legal assault on the motor industry, as it appears that other manufacturers will be affected in due course Finally all this "Mc Carthyism" b0llox about my manufacturers not guilty of any offence in this regard me Lord? Really so they havn't nobbled you with discredited fuel consumption figures for years? Funny isn't it, I didn't see a single post defending the banks when they did similar, they were, and it seems to many still are, the worst of the worst, they even come in and kill your kids at night the lot. A car firm does the same and they can't do any wrong, there was no concern about the hundreds of thousands of people that work for banks not involved in Libor at all, in admin, IT etc. or the other people that hang off them at the time, but if its a car company thats different. Erm no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Why is everyone so keen to defend car manufacturers? This is madness. Emissions + deliberate lies + cheating = Increased pollution and increased deaths. I find it very sad to see so many people appear to try to minimise this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 It strikes me as the same kind of blinkered bull that persuades people their choice of car is better than anyone else's. People often build an emotional attachment to a marque, and admitting that marque has done wrong is as difficult as admitting another marque's model might be better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 One thing I will say though. Governments will try to claim the moral high ground on this and say they alone are protecting the consumer. And that is just as deceptive as the manufacturers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Yes, governments that try to spin this in their favour are as bad as the criminals themselves (and if anyone thinks this isn't criminal then they need to take a serious look at why emission testing was introduced and what the legislation behind it is, especially in the US). As long as government continues to let industry get away with pollution, they should keep quiet. The brand attachment line from garcon is so true. I'd already said I'd sell the 5 series if BMW were found to have been lying but that appears not to be the case now. My sentiment won't change if that swings back. They are profit making organisations. We are customers. They don't love you. They market to you. In doing the latter, one major group has been found to be lying. Why the feck would anyone minimise it? Lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 In relation to governments they are likely to use this as a reason (however small) as to why they aren't reaching the emissions targets set by the EU. As I understand it London has a particular problem that is very likely to mean that UK PLC i.e. the government will get fined for not reaching environmental targets in relation to air quality quite soon. Add this in and they will have a reason however small as to why they aren't getting there. Also as was mentioned earlier in the thread the EU are now rapidly moving to forwards get a new and more relevant MPG / Emissions standard in PDQ whilst the car manufactures are on the back foot. It would be very bad PR for them to stand up and push back again as they have been doing, so they are pushing ahead and keeping to the original target of a new test being in for 2018. Thats still a way off but manufacturers wanted it moved back to 2020 so at least there is light at the end of the tunnel to get a more helpful test for everyone especially us the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Brand attachment? There may be a small element of that for some, but I don't own any VAG products, I still don't really care about this whole thing and it wouldn't put me off buying VAG products in the slightest. If they were lying about something that affected me I might care, but I'm just not bothered about NOx emmisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I'm just not bothered about NOx emissions. You should be. CO2 emissions are all we worry about, because that's the prevailing opinion. However, it's an inert gas with no detrimental effect on people or animals. NOx and the like are actually harmful, with real health effects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuprabob Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 No surprise really but it would seem commercial vehicles are affected too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Brand attachment? There may be a small element of that for some, but I don't own any VAG products, I still don't really care about this whole thing and it wouldn't put me off buying VAG products in the slightest. If they were lying about something that affected me I might care, but I'm just not bothered about NOx emmisions. I find it incredibly sad that you seem to say "I still don't really care" with such abandon. Laugh it off if you want, but future generations will look back on that kind of comment with utter horror - and not the far distant future either. As I've already said, I'm no green tree-hugging loon, but when we're talking about millions and millions of grams of additional air pollution, all because a company has lied in order to sell more vehicles, I do care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 You should be. CO2 emissions are all we worry about, because that's the prevailing opinion. However, it's an inert gas with no detrimental effect on people or animals. NOx and the like are actually harmful, with real health effects. Indeed, if anyone read the article I posted earlier it explained the data and in some articles how strangely the US sees what the EU have done. Their view is why are they using CO2 and efficiency as an aim as that isn't really the killer of people more of a climate change concern. Many people are waking up to particulates and NOx as a far more important criteria to view emissions and the dangers to health. But when you do that its far harder to meet those levels for diesels. The US have a N0x level that is half the limit the EU state today so there is plenty for EU policy makers to move down to to even match what the US levels are set to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) There is a reason I don't care, I don't care about CO2 either, the only impact those would have on my car buying would be if they reduced my vehicle tax. Anything reducing NOx or CO2 in cars is simply pissing in the wind compared to what is being pumped out by industry all around the world, not least the USA who give exemption to the rules to any company that is US based or contributes significantly the US economy, but from Russia, China, India, etc, until that is sorted out we're wasting our time worrying about cars. Do I think pollutants are a problem? Of course. Should they be reduced? Absolutely. Does reducing the emmisions of road cars make any overall difference? No. Edited September 25, 2015 by Tipex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Does reducing the emmisions of road cars make any overall difference? No. Except that is incorrect. They account for 20% of all emissions in the United States. So reducing vehicle emissions has a potentially significant impact globally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 So when air quality in say London is so bad and we are failing to meet the maximum allowable air quality limit its all because of an issue in Russia and China? Even Russia and China have woken up to this as has the US as can be seen by them having a lower limit than even the EU has, stating that it doesn't matter is somewhat missing the point. For those that are suffering significant additional respiratory distress in our lovely capital your words will fall quite cold for many and I'm sure there are other cities with similar issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Reducing them from 20% to what? 19.8%? All that tells me is that we should be concentrating on the 80%, and once that's done, worry about the 20%. Edited September 25, 2015 by Tipex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 "There's no point cracking down on these coal fires everyone has, have you seen how much coal is burnt in Russia and China?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 So when air quality in say London is so bad and we are failing to meet the maximum allowable air quality limit its all because of an issue in Russia and China? Even Russia and China have woken up to this as has the US as can be seen by them having a lower limit than even the EU has, stating that it doesn't matter is somewhat missing the point. For those that are suffering significant additional respiratory distress in our lovely capital your words will fall quite cold for many and I'm sure there are other cities with similar issues. Having lower limits doesn't mean they are enforced, and as I said, the lower limits in the US are almost laughable when you look at all the companies that have exemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 "There's no point cracking down on these coal fires everyone has, have you seen how much coal is burnt in Russia and China?" Is that a VW bus? Coal wasn't phased out due to pollution, it was overtaken by cheaper, easier and better methods to heat houses such as gas central heating, less pollution was simply a happy by product of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 That's not correct, Tipex - burning coal in cities was first restricted and then stopped, by the introduction of smoke-free zones. Yes, there are more efficient, less-polluting fuels, but coal is still used in a huge number of power stations worldwide, because it's relatively cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 That's true for industry, but for domestic consumers? If everyone is so concerned, why aren't they driving the least polluting vehicles they can find? I drive a (relatively) low polluting vehicle, but I'm honest enough to admit I only do so because it uses less fuel and saves me money, I don't pretend to care about the environment while driving a *insert high polluting vehicle here*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now