Mook Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 So I’ve now spent a lot of time looking into the "more power" options after the Stage 4 300+ bhp upgrade. Turbo or supercharger..? To date, the turbo conversion has been the flavour of the month, simply because of the awesome power-hike. I seriously think that if it does what it says on the tin, I would never actually sell the car. I've now had a chance to read the review in VW Driver about VAGtech's 400 bhp Turbo conversion. The review of Jon’s monster .:R32 said a lot about the car and a lot about VAGtech. But I’ve got a few concerns about cranking the R32 over 350 bhp: Heat The engine in the R runs pretty hot already – pop the bonnet after you've been out for an hour or so and you'll know what I mean. Heat in the engine bay itself is not too much of a concern, it's what's going on inside the engine that is more important to me. Turbo = HEAT, so stick an intercooler on it to cool down the air going into the cylinders. No problem. Really..? For the turbo conversion, the compression ratio needs to be lowered so HGP supply a "spacing plate". But the block is made of cast iron, the head is made of cast alloy and the spacing plate is made of machined stainless steel. Different materials all expand and contract at different rates – I'm no scientist, but sticking three completely different materials next to each other doesn't sound like too great an idea. HGP have been going for a while so you would assume they know what they're doing, so have HPA in Canada. But what state will the engine be in after a year and 20K+ miles..? Experience In no way do I want to do Jon down – I think it is fantastic for someone to turn a hobby into a business. But it worries the crap out of me spending £7K inc VAT for the 360 bhp upgrade (or £10K+ for the 400 bhp option) with a business that's only been properly up and running since 2004. I have no doubt that Jon and his engineer at VAGtech are a very capable pair, but I also know how hard it is to keep a business going in the long term and my main concern is what happens in two or three years time when something needs to be fixed and the business is no longer there..? Speed No, not the 0-60 in 4.5 or 170+ top end (doing 7K+ rpm ), but the amount of time it takes to do the conversion. It takes 4 weeks for VAGtech to get the kit in, then they want the car for 4 weeks to do the conversion. FOUR weeks! Sorry guys, but I'm out. I am happy to be convinced otherwise and hopefully Jon will comment. You won't be seeing a turbo on my .:R32 – I now need to investigate the VF Engineering supercharger from AmD. But only the Stage 2 350bhp + option which isn't released yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyPence Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Im with you there on the 4 week time-frame and i can only put that down simply to the number of staff they have to do the work of the company. I think they have a maximum of 4 people but whose to say there arent a whole team (i dont really know) but i can understand that together with numerous other projects they are completing and phone calls and emails to respond to every day to keep the work coming in that it takes this long to complete the installation. How about buying the goodies and getting a local mechanic to do the install. I know for a fact that the EIP kit comes with an installation DVD so for all we know the HGP/A kit may come with paper instructions for any competent mechanic to follow. The idea of a turbo'd R sounds really good to me, and if I should happen to get a kit it would most likely be the 360 kit or an EIP equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 I think a supercharger would suit the car more. Both linear and instant acceleration sounds better to me. But looks like I will get neither. My car is now in at the dealers, again, as there was a buzzing coming from the back of the car. It went for a road test this morning and is, again, unsafe to drive as there is serious trouble with the axle, O and my warranty ran out last month... Still stupid as it I am going to get it repaired and keep the silly fecker... I love it too much to let it go... Not all bad though, I have been lent this till I get it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigR Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Hope you are a better driver than you are at parking !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helfinger Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 i totally agree charles, from our chat the other day i'm looking to go for the supercharger now,but only if AMD can offer me the stage 2 as i can't see the point unless i get a min of 350 bhp. i think most of the people who would go for the 360/400 turbo would only use there cars now and again or who don't do massive miles a year. where as i need a car that i can use everyday and looking at the miles i have done this last 12 months (17K) i need to beable to turn the key in the morning without any problems, could you really do lots of miles with the vagtech Turbo?, as they have only done 1 car so far and not tested it long term. i will be calling Adam at AMD very soon to see what he can offer me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pincher Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Wopps, if your car is unsafe to drive due to problems with the axle and your warranty only ran out last month, surely VW have an obligation to you? I doubt the problem would have manifested itself inside of 4 weeks? Take them to task - an ex colleage of mine had a Passat that was a month outside of warrant and something happened to it (can't remember exactly what) and it needed a replacement engine. VW started out by saying that he would have to cough up (>£2K), then they relented and said they would pay half of all costs. Once he threatened them with Watchdog and got Which? Magazine on the case, they rolled over and paid the whole amount. There were mitigating circumstances admittedly, but they did the work outside of warranty in the end and it didn't cost him a penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyPence Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Wopps, keep the Merc and run . Hows the power in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 3.2l V6 !! I'm still for old fashioned tuning the engine rather than bolting on Turbo and Chargers. I know that V6 is capable of at least 100bhp more without forced induction.... so, why not investigate the posibilities of head work, cams, better fuel delivery, lighter components - remember approx 174hp of the orginal 240hp makes its way to the wheels. Thats 66hp lost through other componenst, eg flu wheel, drive components, pulleys, etc - thats a waste, no other way to describe it! I'd like to reduce that loss as much as I could otherwise you'd be losing the same %age from your 400bhp T conv Lighten the car up a tad, ie custom Ti exhaust, change alloys, new bushings all round the car will be much quicker! Its not always power hikes that are best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 You can also shed about 300kg`s by stripping the inerior! Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 [ QUOTE ] You can also shed about 300kg`s by stripping the inerior! Riz [/ QUOTE ] But I like the interior... where would place my petite touche ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryccf Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 i agree with all the above Supercharging, there has been some mention (usually stated offhand like it's about the elephant in the room nobody is supposed to talk about) regarding vibration when the A/C is running turbo charging, i've got long term reliablity concerns and if there are "tuning" problems six months or 12 months down the road, who am i going to go to for service - not the vw dealer, they barely know the car here in the states i love the idea of 360 or 400 hp under the hood and it would be turbo if i did it but it sure seems easier to pull the checkbook out when the RS4 comes out here in spring '06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Wopps, keep the Merc and run . Hows the power in it? [/ QUOTE ] Silly car, fast as feck. I went to pick a takeaway up with the girlfriend in it last night. Come off the roundabout on to the dual carriage way get straight put you foot down, there is a slight pause as the engine kicks down and the turbos jump in then bam 750lbs of torque wack you forward like a bus just rammed in to the back of you! When the car changed from second to third, with the foot still to the floor, as the gear kicked in the car whipped sideways for a second, and I had to do a quick tad of corrective lock to keep it straight. It is a silly car, but this car would be lethal in the wrong hands, it is just too easy to go too fast. I think im going to be careful, im a wee bit scared of it.. And I prefer the R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 Woppum, Just to echo what Pincher said above, you shouldn't have to pay for a repair to a major component like the rear axle if your warranty has only just run out. I had a cam-belt tensioner go on a car (non VW admittedly) which resulted in a wrecked engine. The warranty was 3 months out of date, and I didn't have any dealer service history whatsoever, but it still got replaced FOC after a bit of hassle. Usually there is a contribution matrix for repairs outside warranty. The manufacturer pays a % of the repair costs based upon mileage and time since the warranty ended - e.g. they might pay 80% if it's one month and 1000 miles out of date etc etc, but as I said they should do it FOC if you hassle them. Sorry for going off topic again MauveG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You can also shed about 300kg`s by stripping the inerior! Riz [/ QUOTE ] But I like the interior... where would place my petite touche ? [/ QUOTE ] Well thats easy, change the front seats for some Racaro bucket seats..... that`ll get rid of most of the weight, rip all the door sound proofing out and the rear seats are easily removed and installed! Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Woppum, Just to echo what Pincher said above, you shouldn't have to pay for a repair to a major component like the rear axle if your warranty has only just run out. I had a cam-belt tensioner go on a car (non VW admittedly) which resulted in a wrecked engine. The warranty was 3 months out of date, and I didn't have any dealer service history whatsoever, but it still got replaced FOC after a bit of hassle. Usually there is a contribution matrix for repairs outside warranty. The manufacturer pays a % of the repair costs based upon mileage and time since the warranty ended - e.g. they might pay 80% if it's one month and 1000 miles out of date etc etc, but as I said they should do it FOC if you hassle them. Sorry for going off topic again MauveG. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the advise. I will push and see what the outcome is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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