pauls1980 Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I want to modify mine, it's currently standard. First things first, where do I start? I want to give it the full treatment but I understand that "a thousand mile journey begins with a single step", so I would like some ideas on how to start my project and where I can expect it to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMeanBob Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 To answer your first question, the potential of the R32 is directly proportional to your bank balance. you could easily get the car to 600bhp if you really wanted to (although for this cost, you could probably buy a far 'better' car instead). Simple steps first : 1) Make sure your car has the 6463 update...makes a world of difference to some cars. 2) Remap. Your options here include (but not strictly limited to) APR, AMD, REVO, GIAC and Superchips. There is still some debate as to whether some of these maps really make a huge difference over the 6463 code. My APR code showed a loss.... 3) Aftermarket Exhaust. Currently options include Miltek (straight through or silenced) or blueflame. Both have a decent following. Other option is the flapper mod that is popular in the states.... 4) CAI. Cold air intake. A relatively cheap mod that seems to deliver. I noticed a big difference with the Carbonio CAI. Options include Carbonio, AEM, EIP, Neuspeed etc etc... 5) Miltek Sports CATs. High speed cats bit costly, but a lot of people like them. 6) Schrick CAMs. Sports CAMS to replace the OEM ones. Engine revs quicker and develops a bit more power. Potential to lose a bit of thump at the bottom end though. 7) Moving on now to forced induction probably now. Options include supercharger (which I'm getting done tomorrow) or turbo. As yet, I don't think there are any UK turbo kits available. VF engineering have a euro compatible SC. This kit has been rather well tried and tested in the states. That probably sums up most of the performance power mods... Following this you have suspension, and handling upgrades: Adjustable coilovers Sway bars (front and rear) Haldex controller Engine mounts Shortshifter. Add all that kit together and you will have spent a pretty penny (isn't that right Tom?) b0b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Where to start Paul - where to start! OK, a lot of this comes down to budget and power. I'm not going to presume what sort of budget you've got, nor am I going to presume how much power/torque you want to obtain. The one thing you shouldn't forget is the handling and the brakes, but I think that needs another thread! First thing is to ensure you've got the latest software update for your R32, which is the #6463 - if you've not already got it, get yourself down to your VW dealer and ask them to apply this update - it's free of charge A lot of people quote 241 bhp as standard for the R32, but the figure is actually 241 PS (PferdeStarken) which is German for "horse strength" and is the DIN, or metric equivalent. To get imperial bhp (which most people use), just multiply by 0.9863 to get bhp - don't worry, I don't keep this stuff in my head - lots of useful conversion rates here. So assume you're starting with 237 bhp and upping this to between 243 and 247 bhp with the #6463 update. Every car is different, hence the variation. Now you start spending money... If you start at the entry level with around £5-600, you can go for a straight remap, which involves the software on the engine management system (ECU) being modified, so that more fuel/air mixture gets thrown in at the right moments. You could talk to AmD www.amdtechnik.com and go with their Stage 1 (ST1) or one of the many REVO dealers in the UK. From comments on TsN, steer clear of APR, although this is not from personal experience. Apart from the placebo effect which is natural when you've just spent £5-600 on your car, you will notice a decent hike in power between 10 and 15 bhp, so you're up to around 258-260 bhp so far. The car will seem to be smoother and a bit more responsive, and the power curve will be a lot smoother. Next you should start on the exhaust. There are two main companies who do replacement exhausts for the R32 - www.blueflameperformance.com and www.milltek.co.uk - the majority of people on TsN have gone for Millteks, but it's your call. BlueFlame (BF) don't do sports cats (catalytic converters - the R32 has two), so you may want to consider Milltek if you're going to play with it a bit more later on, as I did... Adding a cat-back exhaust, as they're known, will give you around an extra 10-12 bhp. The Milltek will set you back about £500 inc.VAT plus about £100 inc VAT for fitting, BF is a bit cheaper. I've never been able to do a direct comparison (i.e. on the dyno), but you should assume you will get about the same power hike from both systems. You can get Millteks cheaper than £500, but I'll wait for someone else to pipe up where the best place is if you're just buying on price. If you're doing the exhaust and remap at the same time, you would do well to go to AmD and get the Stage 2 conversion, which includes the cat-back exhaust and a remap specifically developed to work with the Milltek. So we've spent about £1,200 by now, and we're already up to 270 bhp. The car will feel even more responsive and will breathe a lot more easily, if that makes sense - put your foot down at 2K rpm and you will feel it pull more smoothly and progressively. The mid-range grunt is also a lot more noticeable. This is the point at which you will probably want to stop, unless you want to do some serious work later on, or just go that little but further and add some high-flow sports cats. Again, Milltek is the way to go. They've got two flavours of sports-cats - 100 cell and 200 cell. The difference on a road-going R32 will be very minimal and they can't yet confirm whether the 100 cell cats are road legal. Basically the fewer cells there are in the cats, the bigger the cells are, so the exhaust can flow through and out of the back of the car that much quicker. I've yet to find anyone running 100 cell cats, but can confirm that the 200 cell cats make a bucket load of difference. Around 8 bhp on top of the AmD Stage 2 conversion with the Milltek cat-back exhaust, so that's 278 bhp. Both Helfinger and I had this upgrade done on our cars and the dyno readouts are almost identical. The shocker on this one is that the sports cats are £888 inc VAT, so, if you'd done your upgrades one bit at a time, that'd be over £2000 by now, but AmD will do what we (AMD, Helfinger and me) call Stage 2.5 (which is Stage 2 plus sports cats) for around £1900 inc VAT and fitting. With this set up, you should pull 0-60 in just under 6 seconds, but it's the mid range torque that makes a lot of difference. If I was to have another unmodified R32, this would be the first thing I would do, as it changes the characteristics of the car from quick to "smile on your face" quick. Are you still with me on this..? Right, let's start hiking the power and torque up some more. It gets a bit more serious now, because you will have to move from bolt-on goodies to having your engine taken to pieces. Schrick do two sets of cams for the R32 - 264/260 and 268/264. The "lift" (or how far open the valves are pushed) is the same for both sets. The numbers refer to how many degrees out of 360 the valves are open. With the first set, 264 is for the inlet valves, 260 is for the exhaust. AmD use these as part of their Stage 4 conversion. You can take your pick when you book it in. I went for the 268/264s. Expect 300 to 304 bhp and around 275 lb/ft of torque with this upgrade, but expect to spend an extra £1400 inc VAT on top of what you've already spun... What will happen to the car's characteristics though? Totally awesome! I run a few more tweaks including a cold air intake (£360) and high pressure fuel regulator (£100) on mine to get 312 bhp & 280 lb/ft torque - also unofficially known as Stage 4+, which takes you from the "smile on your face" quick of the Stage 2.5 to "big fat grin on your face". Comparing it to other cars, it will hit 60 in 5.2 seconds and will tag both a current model BMW M3 and a Porsche 996 C4 Cabrio in a straight line. I don't think it's fair for me to say that it will be quicker around a track than the 996 C4 cabrio, because so much of driving round a track is to do with the driver as well. But I'm going to say it anyway. It's quicker. Still not happy? Grab yourself another £4,500 and get a supercharger bolted onto your AmD Stage 2 conversion and get 330+ bhp. Or go the whole hog, and go for the AmD Stage 7 (an unofficial version) which is the supercharger, intercooler, bigger injectors, 5 bar fuel pressure regulator, cold air intake, Milltek cat-back exhaust and sports-cats. This conversion uses slightly milder cams than the Stage 4 conversion, so if you're going to do this a while after your Stage 4 upgrade, then go for the milder cams when you do that. 365+ bhp and around 330 lb/ft torque. Possibly more once they've finished tweaking the software. You can use your imagination on the price for this lot and you've definitely got to be five cans short of a six-pack to do it, but feck, it'll be stupidly quick... Not sure where you're based Paul, but you're more than welcome to come out in my car sometime so you can see the difference between a stock R32 and a tweaked one. Drop me a PM. Can't believe I just wrote that lot. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6tas Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Thanks Mook, thats the exact info i needed that we spoke about via PM the other week. Will keep that well hidden from "her indoors" for the time being !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Or, for more placebo effect, and this ones quite a cheap option, stick a bottle of Millers Oils in, I think it does work, but some say not. Mook, stop showing off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I like to push myself backwards into the seat when accelerating.... it makes it feel like I'm going really fast! And its costs nothing! My coat is on and taxi awaits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1monty Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 After reading some of these alleged engine problems recently I wonder if it might be more sensible to stick with standard & save the money to spend on rectification when all our warranties run out! It appears to me that if these big faults are true, with such low mileages, that the 'Otto' engine in the R is not up to scratch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Stop spoiling the fun Monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] After reading some of these alleged engine problems recently I wonder if it might be more sensible to stick with standard & save the money to spend on rectification when all our warranties run out! It appears to me that if these big faults are true, with such low mileages, that the 'Otto' engine in the R is not up to scratch! [/ QUOTE ] Alleged engine problems? Which ones...... the odd person has a timing chain fault and a dual mass flywheel problem but on the whole I think the R32 engine is fairly robust, afterall how many R32 owners potter about in the Rs and how many drive them properly - ie as a car with a 3.2 V6 is meant to be driven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decked Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] After reading some of these alleged engine problems recently I wonder if it might be more sensible to stick with standard & save the money to spend on rectification when all our warranties run out! It appears to me that if these big faults are true, with such low mileages, that the 'Otto' engine in the R is not up to scratch! [/ QUOTE ] Alleged engine problems? Which ones...... the odd person has a timing chain fault and a dual mass flywheel problem but on the whole I think the R32 engine is fairly robust, afterall how many R32 owners potter about in the Rs and how many drive them properly - ie as a car with a 3.2 V6 is meant to be driven! [/ QUOTE ] I drive it like i stole it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I drive it like i stole it [/ QUOTE ] You see Decked I've never understood that expression. Does it mean you drive like a complete tw*t and smash into any old granny/kid/street sign you see, with the intention of killing them/it. Or something completely different... Nutter. Complete nutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decked Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 At night i drive like a twat!!!! Country lanes etc, anything 30-40 i stick to it especially during the day, seen too many accidents. But at night on single lanes when you can see car lights etc i'll have my fun. Where i live i know the roads like the back of my hand (the only problem is foxes, badgers and deer!!!. I've often thought they should do a local rally down here. I've had one person sick once they've got out of the car and i regularly have passengers light their fags off the front discs when their out of the car!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I'll remember to steer clear of blue cars whenever I'm in Kent then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decked Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I'll remember to steer clear of blue cars whenever I'm in Kent then... [/ QUOTE ] Good idea!!! I'd prefer you too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMG Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] At night i drive like a twat!!!! Country lanes etc, anything 30-40 i stick to it especially during the day, seen too many accidents. But at night on single lanes when you can see car lights etc i'll have my fun. Where i live i know the roads like the back of my hand (the only problem is foxes, badgers and deer!!!. I've often thought they should do a local rally down here. I've had one person sick once they've got out of the car and i regularly have passengers light their fags off the front discs when their out of the car!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Double snap! DeckedR32 Hit a badger in my Mk 2 Gti going through the lanes……… lucky for me it was foggy at the time……… (Not so lucky for the badger though) I gave my brother and sister in law a lift home in the early hours once and my brother in law made the mistake of saying “show us what it can do then” So I did…….2 minutes later they were home, Sam got out and chucked up and Pete was looking very pale So I guess the R has the potential to make people sick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Paul, There is another mod they guys haven't mentioned that really changes the car's driveability. Get yourself a Haldex Performance Part fitted, THEN go to town on the horsepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 You cheeky monkey Rachel - that's why I stuck "The one thing you shouldn't forget is the handling and the brakes, but I think that needs another thread!" at the top of my post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 [ QUOTE ] You cheeky monkey Rachel [/ QUOTE ] So, you want to spank me then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Get a room!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helfinger Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 do you like a good spanking! ........ aside from that just a little update on my car guys. Well there has been a few issues due to the type of conversion i ended up going for...things are never simple when i'm involved. Been waiting ages for some parts but any way i should be getting her back a week today and she will be more like a VF stage 2.5/3 rather than a version 2 as i intended, due to a few extras i have had to add so she can cope with the power. As for power its anyones guess at the mo.......a review very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Guys - with all this Kw/Nm increase in the powerplant, have you had to toughen the gearbox, or look at beefier clutches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 [off topic] It took me two reads to realise we weren't onto a discussion on Beefy cruches then!! [/off topic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Get a room!! [/ QUOTE ] ...like YOU said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helfinger Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Guys - with all this Kw/Nm increase in the powerplant, have you had to toughen the gearbox, or look at beefier clutches? [/ QUOTE ] no the clutch and gearbox is good for 400 BHP so she will be fine i guess if you really abuse your car then yes it will be easier to brake...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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