330dcoupe Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Was just reading various reviews on the new 635d - and the general consensus is that it's an excellent package - my question is, will Audi and Mercedes meat the challenge head on and stick a stonker in one of their large coupes? perhaps a 4.2 TDI A5 or a 4.0 (from the ML420CDI) CL420 CDI? was reading some stats about the A5 3.0 TDI - and it claims to hit 60 in 5.9 seconds. Is this Audi exaggerating or is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 It is possible, There is a serious amount of boot in the 3.0 TDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] It is possible, There is a serious amount of boot in the 3.0 TDI. [/ QUOTE ] The way i'm looking at it, is from a power to weight ratio - I'm not sure on the exact figures - but talking from experience of my own car - it has around 35-40bhp more and around 60Ibs ft more of torque - I have no doubt it would crack 60 in and around that mark (5.9-6.0) on a good day - ie dry and cold - So what have Audi done to the A5 (which is ALSO heavier) to make it go that quick? do you think these figures are from the DSG version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It is possible, There is a serious amount of boot in the 3.0 TDI. [/ QUOTE ] The way i'm looking at it, is from a power to weight ratio - I'm not sure on the exact figures - but talking from experience of my own car - it has around 35-40bhp more and around 60Ibs ft more of torque - I have no doubt it would crack 60 in and around that mark (5.9-6.0) on a good day - ie dry and cold - So what have Audi done to the A5 (which is ALSO heavier) to make it go that quick? do you think these figures are from the DSG version? [/ QUOTE ] Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Figures: Engine Size 2967 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 5.7 s Power Output 236 bhp Valves 24 Torque 500 Nm 369 lb-ft Top Speed 155 mph BMW 330 Cd Sport (E46) Figures: Engine Size 2993 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 7.0 s Power Output 201 bhp Valves 24 Torque 410 Nm 302 lb-ft Top Speed 150 mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 My guess would be the Quattro on the A5 helps it at, the torque of the 635d can probably spin up the rear wheels, while the A5 can have a more aggressive launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 I have heard of Audi testing a diesel TT.... although that was sometime ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Was just reading various reviews on the new 635d - and the general consensus is that it's an excellent package - my question is, will Audi and Mercedes meat the challenge head on and stick a stonker in one of their large coupes? perhaps a 4.2 TDI A5 or a 4.0 (from the ML420CDI) CL420 CDI? was reading some stats about the A5 3.0 TDI - and it claims to hit 60 in 5.9 seconds. Is this Audi exaggerating or is that possible? [/ QUOTE ] All I can say is this: I have driven both the Audi3.0TDI sport and the new 6 series 635D, and the 6 series is just so superior to the audi it's light years in front, it felt miles quicker than the audi, and the auto box it has was sensational, I love it and just might buy one next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] My guess would be the Quattro on the A5 helps it at, the torque of the 635d can probably spin up the rear wheels, while the A5 can have a more aggressive launch. [/ QUOTE ] I drove the 6 and it absolutly flew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 The BMW is rear wheel drive so as the back squats down you get all the traction you need really. The BMW figures are very conservative as well, I was getting 4.99 from the 335i with a timing meter in stock form, think the official time is 5.7 seconds. In one of the Audi Magasines they did say in response to one of the letters asking if they were going to bring the 4.2tdi to the UK for the A6 to compete with the 535d to 'watch this space, not the 4.3tdi but something that will compete will be announced shortly'. That was however 18 months ago and not heard anything since. I think the BMW feels a fair bit quicker because of the 50:50 balance and the rwd system, compare the 530d and the A5 3.0tdi and the BMW still feels quicker and more nimble, but I don't think it actually is, again I think this is why the RS4 feels so, so, so much quicker the the S5. Balance and steering feel has so much to do with the overall feeling of speed and agility that it can trick you very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Was just reading various reviews on the new 635d - and the general consensus is that it's an excellent package - my question is, will Audi and Mercedes meat the challenge head on and stick a stonker in one of their large coupes? perhaps a 4.2 TDI A5 or a 4.0 (from the ML420CDI) CL420 CDI? was reading some stats about the A5 3.0 TDI - and it claims to hit 60 in 5.9 seconds. Is this Audi exaggerating or is that possible? [/ QUOTE ] All I can say is this: I have driven both the Audi3.0TDI sport and the new 6 series 635D, and the 6 series is just so superior to the audi it's light years in front, it felt miles quicker than the audi, and the auto box it has was sensational, I love it and just might buy one next year. [/ QUOTE ] Of course, your view has nothing to do with the fact you're heading to BMW yourself, of course I disagree that they are that far apart at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 I have driven both an A4 3.0TDI and owned a 335d and I know which was faster in my mind and that was the BMW by a mile, but then I suppose because I owned the BMW my view is worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It is possible, There is a serious amount of boot in the 3.0 TDI. [/ QUOTE ] The way i'm looking at it, is from a power to weight ratio - I'm not sure on the exact figures - but talking from experience of my own car - it has around 35-40bhp more and around 60Ibs ft more of torque - I have no doubt it would crack 60 in and around that mark (5.9-6.0) on a good day - ie dry and cold - So what have Audi done to the A5 (which is ALSO heavier) to make it go that quick? do you think these figures are from the DSG version? [/ QUOTE ] Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Figures: Engine Size 2967 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 5.7 s Power Output 236 bhp Valves 24 Torque 500 Nm 369 lb-ft Top Speed 155 mph BMW 330 Cd Sport (E46) Figures: Engine Size 2993 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 7.0 s Power Output 201 bhp Valves 24 Torque 410 Nm 302 lb-ft Top Speed 150 mph [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for that clever dick....but I've had mine re-mapped. And i think your having a giraffe if you believe the 3.0 TDI A5 hits 60 in 5.7 seconds - Not a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Was just reading various reviews on the new 635d - and the general consensus is that it's an excellent package - my question is, will Audi and Mercedes meat the challenge head on and stick a stonker in one of their large coupes? perhaps a 4.2 TDI A5 or a 4.0 (from the ML420CDI) CL420 CDI? was reading some stats about the A5 3.0 TDI - and it claims to hit 60 in 5.9 seconds. Is this Audi exaggerating or is that possible? [/ QUOTE ] All I can say is this: I have driven both the Audi3.0TDI sport and the new 6 series 635D, and the 6 series is just so superior to the audi it's light years in front, it felt miles quicker than the audi, and the auto box it has was sensational, I love it and just might buy one next year. [/ QUOTE ] Of course, your view has nothing to do with the fact you're heading to BMW yourself, of course I disagree that they are that far apart at all. [/ QUOTE ] Nearly every report I read said pretty much the same thing - the A5 is a great machine, but just can't match the BMW for driving experience. On the evidence of what I've driven from Audi - I have to agree - but I'm yet to compare my drive of the RS4 to the new BMW M3 (still waiting a test drive!) but I'd definitely consider the A5 as a future car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 The A5 3.0TDI is a very capable car, and with quattro and a manual 'box I have no doubt it is capable of 0-60 in 5.9 secs. However, the engine in the 635d is on a different level altogether - power and torque figures closer to the 4.2 TDI than the 3.0TDI. Given an auto box and more weight the 635d will probably match the A5 3.0TDI to 60mph, but after that it'll leave the Audi for dead. Mind you - if I was wanting to make progress over typical UK B-roads I'd probably be quicker in the A5 with Quattro and a manual box than in the 635d! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Figures: Engine Size 2967 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 5.7 s Power Output 236 bhp Valves 24 Torque 500 Nm 369 lb-ft Top Speed 155 mph [/ QUOTE ] Autocar couldn't match that acceleration. It had also had a few more pies than claimed as well: Autocar - A5 TDi Road Test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Audi figures say 5.9 not 5.7 to 60. Still a bloody quick motor though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] The BMW is rear wheel drive so as the back squats down you get all the traction you need really. The BMW figures are very conservative as well, I was getting 4.99 from the 335i with a timing meter in stock form, think the official time is 5.7 seconds. In one of the Audi Magasines they did say in response to one of the letters asking if they were going to bring the 4.2tdi to the UK for the A6 to compete with the 535d to 'watch this space, not the 4.3tdi but something that will compete will be announced shortly'. That was however 18 months ago and not heard anything since. I think the BMW feels a fair bit quicker because of the 50:50 balance and the rwd system, compare the 530d and the A5 3.0tdi and the BMW still feels quicker and more nimble, but I don't think it actually is, again I think this is why the RS4 feels so, so, so much quicker the the S5. Balance and steering feel has so much to do with the overall feeling of speed and agility that it can trick you very easily. [/ QUOTE ] Very valid reply, on paper the A5 TDI is quicker than the 635D, "Feelwise" it ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Was just reading various reviews on the new 635d - and the general consensus is that it's an excellent package - my question is, will Audi and Mercedes meat the challenge head on and stick a stonker in one of their large coupes? perhaps a 4.2 TDI A5 or a 4.0 (from the ML420CDI) CL420 CDI? was reading some stats about the A5 3.0 TDI - and it claims to hit 60 in 5.9 seconds. Is this Audi exaggerating or is that possible? [/ QUOTE ] All I can say is this: I have driven both the Audi3.0TDI sport and the new 6 series 635D, and the 6 series is just so superior to the audi it's light years in front, it felt miles quicker than the audi, and the auto box it has was sensational, I love it and just might buy one next year. [/ QUOTE ] Of course, your view has nothing to do with the fact you're heading to BMW yourself, of course I disagree that they are that far apart at all. [/ QUOTE ] There is NO garantee of of that mate , I do look at everything out there, including the C63 AMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Figures: Engine Size 2967 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 5.7 s Power Output 236 bhp Valves 24 Torque 500 Nm 369 lb-ft Top Speed 155 mph [/ QUOTE ] Autocar couldn't match that acceleration. It had also had a few more pies than claimed as well: Autocar - A5 TDi Road Test [/ QUOTE ] Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Figures: Engine Size 2967 cc Cylinders 6 0-60 mph 5.7 s Power Output 236 bhp Valves 24 Torque 500 Nm 369 lb-ft Top Speed 155 mph [/ QUOTE ] Autocar couldn't match that acceleration. It had also had a few more pies than claimed as well: Autocar - A5 TDi Road Test [/ QUOTE ] Thank you very much [/ QUOTE ] I am not claiming these figures to be gospel - they are purely taken from Parkers as a guide...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Seems Parkers have lost a couple of tenths then. I'm sure Audi's figure is 5.9 to 60. The rest is right I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Figures: 0-60 mph 5.9 s Power Output 236 bhp Torque 500 Nm 369 lb-ft [/ QUOTE ] I can totally believe these figures in an A5 coupe.. In my car, the 3.0tdi is pretty nippy and really its the equivalent of a diesel S4 - especially if gearbox can handle the quick changes needed when doing 0-60 dash 335 has the advantage of twin turbos, so torque starts lower down and is then higher when the larger 2nd turbo is spooling. hardly rocket science. as for feel - well a single turbod car should "feel" faster than a twin turbod car. twin turbos usually manage to keep the torque more linear across the rev range - first smaller turbo spooling to feed the second larger one etc, wheres in a single turbod car it will start to spool at some point and bamm. ...and you can only feel non-linear acceleration. An RS4 may be quicker - but doesnt really feel it as its so linear. you get a push back in the seat when you drop 2 cogs to floor it, but thats it. its just a gentle wheeee after that and everything disappears - but it doesnt feel like you're leaving earths orbit or anything..... I bet the 635d is a stonker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Are we talkig biturbo or twin-turbo here? Twin turbo is one small lightweight turbo and one larger, heavier one, which between them provide light boost at the lower end, and higher boost pressures at higher rpms. Biturbo is using two turbochargers, usually in a V-configured engine, to improve responsiveness compared to one larger turbo. As far as I know, Audi's 2.5 V6 TDI engine uses one industrial-sized turbo, and is noticably laggy as a result, where the 3.0 V6 TDI is a biturbo design and is a lot more responsive. Is the BMW diesel biturbo or twin? I've seen it called both, but most technical discussions seem to suggest two smaller turbos, making it a biturbo. I don't really know why Audi stopped at 233 PS on the 3.0 TDI; a chip-only tuning from MTM will take it to around 285 PS, with peak torque of 525Nm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Update: Evo says it's a sequential, so twin-turbo design. That would make sense, getting 580Nm out of 3 litres of oil-burner requires a lot of boost, which a larger blower would be able to do. With that kind of grunt on tap, I'll bet it fair flies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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