10 plate Polo total engine failure

[Timnotnowafan]

My 10 plate polo1.2 has just had total engine failure a valve fell into the cylinder, new engine required at £3,200!! Done approx 40k just over 3 1/2 years old, full service etc.

 

This is after a timing chain slip at less than 35k and just out of warranty. Customer services contributed 60%( but still expensive)  but now will do nothing.

 

Two major failures for a car of that age and mileage is unacceptable as they admit, but then to say it is my problem is appalling. I have written to them giving a chance to review but is that customer care? I think not.

 

Is that a sign of a quality product definitely not.

 

My third VW, don't think i would touch another.

 

Anyone had similar?

[Calm Chris]

Did they not put a year on the warranty post the timing chain issue.

I'd point out the fsh and ask them to cover the full repair, I take it the fsh is vw main dealer?

[Timnotnowafan]

No warranty advised on the chain (Main dealer repair) at the time but they say it was not that that caused the current problem.

 

VW main dealer first service VW independent with all VW parts and oils supplied by VW for second, only approx 5k mileage after that before it went. That service may have been where I have gone wrong for customer care purposes, they mentioned it on the first problem.

 

But the failure did not result from that it happened because of poor build quality. You are unlucky if you get an engine failure on a car of many more miles and years if you maintain it, never mind two in less than six months.

 

The independent also advised me that the long service intervals was causing timing chain slippage on cars and that to look after it, reduce the service interval to 10k from 17k even with long life oils.

 

I wrote to the main dealer who supplied the car new to me advising them of the problem as well  and indicating that the car was not fit for purpose and have not as yet had a reply.

 

I have spoken to  VW customer services Uk  several times with no luck at all and no reasons given.

 

The manufacturer is also not interested, it really is not what you would expect.

[drpellypo]

At that close to end of warranty, I would push and push til you get a resolution you're happy with. The car was clearly duff from the off IMO. I had a client with an S3 that did similar and he got a brand new engine out of them fitted. It was around 30k if I remember right.

[Calm Chris]

There does appear to be grace a favour available when you maintain and service direct to main dealers. It does seem that the vast majority of manufactures do not offer grace and favour, when you take the service elsewhere.

It might be iffy with regard to euro laws, but since it's the manufactures 'choice' you will have to get the biggest bat out and metaphorically bully them into offering some sort of gesture.

[Mook]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

 

Regardless of the mileage, it's 4 years old and it's out of manufacturer's warranty.  I think VW have done you a good service by coughing for half the costs.

[Tipex]

As above, this is the pitfall of not using a main dealer for servicing, while the car is under warranty, as per the law, they'll still fix it even if you service it elsewhere, just don't expect any help the day the warranty expires.

Servicing a car that is under warranty at an independent garage, no matter how good they are, can be a false economy if you intend to keep it past the warranty.

[drpellypo]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Regardless of the mileage, it's 4 years old and it's out of manufacturer's warranty. I think VW have done you a good service by coughing for half the costs.

I may have rads wrong, but have VW in this case offered nothing at all, and the grace was for the timing chain issue?

[E-bmw]

I thought that was what he meant too.

[Timnotnowafan]

The grace was for the first problem.

 

The issues here are that;

 

1) VW  are manufacturing cars that do not go the time and distance and

 

2) They don't care

 

How can any one say it is palatable to pay £11,000 for a car and within 4 years spend £4,700 ish on two major engine failures never mind the normal maintenance.

 

They advertise reliability and customer care but don't deliver, no modern consumer should expect that.

 

It is clearly not fit for purpose.

[patently]

I'm going to stick my neck out here.  

 

Yes, to have two major problems in that time is upsetting, and I do sympathise.  I have a 911 sitting in a specialist with its engine being dismantled as I type this: I really do sympathise.  But, you're asking VW to cough up a lot of money, so it is not unreasonable of them to ask "why would we do that".

 

One answer could be that the car is under a warranty, therefore they must.  But that option is not available here .

 

Another answer is that they should do so out of the kindness of their hearts and because it would be good PR for them.  Which is all very well, but you haven't been kind to them and given them the servicing work, have you?  If I were them, I would be kind (where possible) to people with a good VW service history and firm with those that haven't - that (if anything) reinforces the PR message of "get your car serviced at VW".  You want VW to give you service above & beyond the call of what is legally due, but you also wanted it serviced more cheaply than VW will do it for.  Is that not having your cake and eating it?

 

Or, you could argue that VW is not producing a car that is fit for purpose, as you have said.  But one car with problems doesn't prove the design is flawed.  It just shows either bad luck, or abuse, or lack of maintenance.  You might have a point if many, many VWs of this type were blowing up, but just one...?

 

 

 

 

So, thinking about things more constructively:

 

When did you buy the car?  Is it arguable that the faults were present at the time?  

 

When was the first problem?  Is it arguable that VW botched the repair and caused the second problem?

[Tipex]

I was typing a reply that Patently put much more eloquently, it all comes down to loyalty at the end of the day, why would they help you if you haven't shown any?

 

I've had many faults fixed by dealers outside of warranty for example, including a full Dual mass flywheel, clutch and slave cylinder, around 2k's worth of work at Ford prices, simply because I had a full Ford service history, others with similar and less expensive faults get told to feck orf because they think they are saving money by going to a specialist instead, when in fact, most dealers will match servicing prices anyway if you haggle with them, and you still get the all important dealer stamp.

 

Also, they have no idea of the quality of workmanship or parts being used by a non dealer garage, yes you can say you've used genuine parts, or even OE spec pattern parts, but how are they to know you actually have? it's a fair assumption that if you are looking to save money by going elsewhere, you may have saved money using cheap parts and oil, of course you haven't in this case, but they aren't to know that.

 

That being said, it never hurts to ask, and in your position I'd be pushing them hard, I'd be surprised if the slipped chain didn't cause the problem with the valve, there won't be much tolerance and I'm fairly sure it'll be an interference type engine.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Tipex

[Mook]

Have you had the car from new?

That's fairly fundamental in this.

[Timnotnowafan]

Car owned from new, the independent serviced it when I sent it for a Mot. He told me that waiting for the full service interval was not wise as the engine oil could sludge up and could cause timing belt issues. Would not have done it otherwise.

 

How right he was.

 

He only uses VW genuine parts and oils which I advised VW. There was only approx 5k miles done after that.

 

The timing repair was done at a main dealer.

 

The key issue here is that the product is not up to it and there is a history of this try searching "VW class actions" on the net you may be surprised you will get pages of results.

 

Customer service is one thing contractual fitness for purpose is another.

[Tipex]

Customer service is one thing contractual fitness for purpose is another.

 

This is true, but unfortunately 'fitness for purpose' is not something that is clearly defined.

[patently]

When was the timing chain repaired?

If it was recent, then I'm sceptical that a valve falling out is *totally unrelated* to the technician mucking around with that bit of the engine just a short while before... and I think you're on firmer ground there than asking for goodwill.

[Mook]

OK, I'm not actually sure why you've come on here other than to vent and/or get sympathy that in your view the VW product that you bought from them isn't, in your words, fit for purpose. Is my assumption correct?

You say this is your third VW, so you must have a bout them for a reason. I've had more VWs and Audis than I can remember, with one Audi needing warranty work, some of which was honoured, some of which wasn't, as well as a VW with an engine that self destructed at 70K due to a snapped timing chain. It was out of warranty. I had to cough £4k to fix it.

A car has thousands of components. Components fail. It's impossible to prevent all failures. You say it's dropped a valve? That's got noting to do with the timing belt (you've said chain, but your car has a belt driven camshaft).

Like I said, you've done bloody well to get VW to cough a goodwill gesture.

[Tipex]

Like I said, you've done bloody well to get VW to cough a goodwill gesture.

 

He hasn't had a goodwill gesture, that's the problem, he did have when the timing belt slipped, and VW paid 60% of the cost for that, outside of the warranty, but not for this problem.

 

Surely the belt slipping could lead to the valves contacting the pistons?

 

Unfortunately, as the slipped belt was replaced out of warranty, that work won't be warrantied, as warranty work is only warrantied until the end of the original warranty, or one year, whichever happens first.

 

And given you've already had one previous goodwill gesture, I can't see you getting another.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Tipex

[Cuprabob]

He hasn't had a goodwill gesture, that's the problem, he did have when the timing belt slipped, and VW paid 60% of the cost for that, outside of the warranty, but not for this problem.

Surely the belt slipping could lead to the valves contacting the pistons?

Unfortunately, as the slipped belt was replaced out of warranty, that work won't be warrantied, as warranty work is only warrantied until the end of the original warranty, or one year, whichever happens first.

And given you've already had one previous goodwill gesture, I can't see you getting another.

The 1.2 3 cyl Polo has a chain

I have read that VW have been having tensioner issues with.some chain driven issues causing then to jump a tooth.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Cuprabob

[Tipex]

I was going by Mook's comment above about it having a belt not a chain, either way, the result of it slipping a tooth would be the same, if not worse on a chain as the distance it would slip is slightly further than one tooth on a belt.

 

Also, the OP said chain, then mentioned his mechanic said the belt can slip, but as I said, either way it leads to the potential of the valve kissing the piston.

[Cuprabob]

I was going by Mook's comment above about it having a belt not a chain, either way, the result of it slipping a tooth would be the same, if not worse on a chain as the distance it would slip is slightly further than one tooth on a belt.

Also, the OP said chain, then mentioned his mechanic said the belt can slip, but as I said, either way it leads to the potential of the valve kissing the piston.

Tipex, I agree it's toouch of a coincidence that the timing has jumped a tooth and then some time later a valve drops.

Sounds to me that that the consequences of it jumping a tooth weren't fully investigated when it was originally repaired. Problem is tje warranty on the repair also expires at the same time a the original warranty.

To take on VW you really need your dealer fighting your corner as I found out when the engine on my R32 needed replacing at 4 years old due to a porous block.