garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 So... are you saying you'd just drive into an elk if it happened to pop out into your path? Surely it makes sense that you can swerve round an obstacle without fear of rolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Yes, but I didn't think we were taking this too seriously Toyota obviously have if they've taken it off the market, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 True, but I find it difficult to turn down the opportunity to remind the idiotic 4x4's are wonderfully safe to take my little johnny to school in brigade that they're driving a feckin death trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] its not only Elk's that try and kill you over here there's also wolfs, bears, wild boar and suicidal badgers - all of which just love to wait for you in the middle of a blind bend. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but if you run into something up to the size of (say) a deer, in something of at least the size of (say) a 2004 BMW 330Ci Sport Coupe, the front of the car takes the impact and you just get a very nasty fright and an even nastier bill. I speak from bitter experience here . Run into an elk and you die. Now, I'm not exactly keen to run into a deer. But that does kind of makes me even keener to avoid running into an elk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 It didn't hit the elk!!!!! If a BMW did that they'd call it "entertaining" The Golf GTi made its name for lifting its inside rear wheel...this lifts both so therefore its better, no? Its THE hot hatch!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techieboy Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] It didn't hit the elk!!!!! If a BMW did that they'd call it "entertaining" [/ QUOTE ] If a BMW hit the elk, BMW would probably charge for it as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] True, but I find it difficult to turn down the opportunity to remind the idiotic 4x4's are wonderfully safe to take my little johnny to school in brigade that they're driving a feckin death trap. [/ QUOTE ] [Mrs Chelsea]"Yes, but as long as little Johnny is safe, that's all that counts. No, no, I'm not worried about other people, they're minions anyway and they shouldn't be walking in front of my car"[/Mrs Chelsea] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] True, but I find it difficult to turn down the opportunity to remind the idiotic 4x4's are wonderfully safe to take my little johnny to school in brigade that they're driving a feckin death trap. [/ QUOTE ] Of course they are. If an elk will bounce off them, they're not exactly going to be hurt if that stupid kid from next door runs out in front of them. Actually, Garcon, I hate to tell you this, but in pedestrian impact tests a 4x4 can give better results. From the pedestrian's point of view. Now, I'm not exactly keen to be hit by any car, but I'd rather be hit by an X5 or a 911 than by a Mondeo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Depends how fast it's going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I was thinking more of the rollover risk of many 4x4's and people carriers. They're safe (if bloody annoying) at 11mph Chelsea school run speeds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] If a BMW hit the elk, BMW would probably charge for it as an option. [/ QUOTE ] Elkotronic £635.00 Sensors in the bonnet region issue an electromagnetic field that repels nearby elks. Impact with an elk will result in the elk being flung into the path of a cheaper car coming the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] I hate to tell you this, but in pedestrian impact tests a 4x4 can give better results. From the pedestrian's point of view. Now, I'm not exactly keen to be hit by any car, but I'd rather be hit by an X5 or a 911 than by a Mondeo... [/ QUOTE ] Now that's interesting. What physics class wasn't I paying attention in? 4x4 - taller bonnet, more mass. pedestrian likely to receive a huge impact across the entire abdomen mondeo - lower bonnet, less mass. pedestrian likely to fly over the top of the bonnet and into the road. so i'd guess there's a bigger % chance of fatality from hitting the 4x4 than the mondeo, but a bigger % chance of fatality due to hitting other obstacles after bouncing off the bonnet of the mondeo. I still think i'd pick the mondeo and take my chances at doing an Eddie the Eagle impression!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It didn't hit the elk!!!!! If a BMW did that they'd call it "entertaining" [/ QUOTE ] If a BMW hit the elk, BMW would probably charge for it as an option. [/ QUOTE ] Shall we start a new thread comparing BMW and Audi option lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If a BMW hit the elk, BMW would probably charge for it as an option. [/ QUOTE ] Elkotronic £635.00 Sensors in the bonnet region issue an electromagnetic field that repels nearby elks. Impact with an elk will result in the elk being flung into the path of a cheaper car coming the other way. [/ QUOTE ] Although I'd buy that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] I was thinking more of the rollover risk of many 4x4's and people carriers. They're safe (if bloody annoying) at 11mph Chelsea school run speeds... [/ QUOTE ] Have you ever done an ABS test in a Cayenne? 70mph, straight line, emergency braking, then with 30mph still to scrub off, do an emergency lane change. The car was perfectly calm and stable. Which was more than you could say for me after the experience. Thank heavens I was on a test track at the time. No rollover, and no cones hurt. Absolutely amazing. It can be done, so you need to criticise the poor examples that fail, not the class as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 But you pay your money for the Cayenne though - it's mostly electronics that's sorting out the stability. Not on a Hilux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] True, but I find it difficult to turn down the opportunity to remind the idiotic 4x4's are wonderfully safe to take my little johnny to school in brigade that they're driving a feckin death trap. [/ QUOTE ] Of course they are. If an elk will bounce off them, they're not exactly going to be hurt if that stupid kid from next door runs out in front of them. Actually, Garcon, I hate to tell you this, but in pedestrian impact tests a 4x4 can give better results. From the pedestrian's point of view. Now, I'm not exactly keen to be hit by any car, but I'd rather be hit by an X5 or a 911 than by a Mondeo... [/ QUOTE ] Patently, can you show us some stats to back this up ? I recall pedestrian NCAP test results on many 4X4's were dismal, its a long-standing Chelfing* gag too. *Funny once upon a time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] But you pay your money for the Cayenne though - it's mostly electronics that's sorting out the stability. Not on a Hilux [/ QUOTE ] True, its Girders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I guess that's a fair point. The other (much bigger IMO) factor is that your example was (presumably) with a professional at the wheel. Most school mums would panic in that kind of scenario, and probably do precisely the wrong thing to help stability. My view is probably something of a generalisation, but in twenty years or so of driving, every vehicle I have ever seen that has rolled on a motorway has had a higer centre of gravity - whether a people carrier or 4x4. In the right hands they may well be safe, but in the hands of your average Joe Bloggs motorist they ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Now that's interesting. What physics class wasn't I paying attention in? 4x4 - taller bonnet, more mass. pedestrian likely to receive a huge impact across the entire abdomen mondeo - lower bonnet, less mass. pedestrian likely to fly over the top of the bonnet and into the road. so i'd guess there's a bigger % chance of fatality from hitting the 4x4 than the mondeo, but a bigger % chance of fatality due to hitting other obstacles after bouncing off the bonnet of the mondeo. I still think i'd pick the mondeo and take my chances at doing an Eddie the Eagle impression!! [/ QUOTE ] Get hit by a car and it kicks your legs out, you rotate around your hip, and your head whacks the bonnet. On a Mondeo, there is a hard engine block a short distance under the bonnet; the bonnet deforms and your skull crunches on the block. Or, if you're taller, your head hits the unforgiving windscreen frame. Again, crunch. Either way, significant damage to skull. On a 4x4, you hit a bonnet that often has a bigger clearance between it and the engine block. So the nice soft bonnet bends to accommodate your head. And you won't be tall enough to reach the windscreen frame. Result; serious injury but surviveable. Note: children react differently. But given that they'll be dead either way, there's not much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I think we're agreed that, all in all, it's best just not to get run over. Whether you're a child or an elk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] I guess that's a fair point. The other (much bigger IMO) factor is that your example was (presumably) with a professional at the wheel. [/ QUOTE ] Nope - just me! But with a professional in the passenger seat yelling at me what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] I think we're agreed that, all in all, it's best just not to get run over. Whether you're a child or an elk. [/ QUOTE ] That's the plan I'm working to at the moment. Also planning to avoid running anyone over if I can possibly help it, no matter what I'm driving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Nope - just me! But with a professional in the passenger seat yelling at me what to do. [/ QUOTE ] That helps! I made a Landrover do things I never imagined possible last month with an instructor telling me what to do. Mind you, he did get it properly stuck while 'demonstrating'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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