Botang Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 The whole thing is pathetic Britain contributes 2% of the worlds 'greenhouse gas' emmisions Cars are responsible for 2.5% of Britains emmisions 4x4 make up about 7% of the market If we say 50% of these could change to greener cars On that basis Gordon is targeting 0.00025% (I think ) of the worlds greenhouse gas problem, and that assumes that the cars they will change to will produce 0 emmisions which obviously wont happen so you coul argue to half that figure again. JmaesB's taking up more space argument is a little silly too as how much bigger is the footprint of a "Chelsea Tractor" compared with what they would change to, an A6 for example? Its not a significant difference I know that much. If 4x4's are so bad why not set standard to say vehicles with a CO2 rating of 250 of more wont be sold in this country from 2008. That way you are forcing the manufactures to work within the system if they want to sell the cars in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzy Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Absolutley right - but it isn't just 4x4's that will be affected as already said - the media seem to continually imply that this is a tax specifically against 4x4's whereas in fact it is going to hit any car over a certain emmissions level - probably including larger diesels of 3.0 and above! Let's just hope that it is only aimed at new cars, purchased after the change in implemented. - Question on that - does this include the purchase of secondhand cars - i.e. if I were to get a 1 year old RS4 later this year then would I get hit with the new higher rate of road-tax even though it's not a new car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botang Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Its likely to hit all vehicles registered from 23rd March 2006 onwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattburrow Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Absolutley right - but it isn't just 4x4's that will be affected as already said - the media seem to continually imply that this is a tax specifically against 4x4's whereas in fact it is going to hit any car over a certain emmissions level - probably including larger diesels of 3.0 and above! Let's just hope that it is only aimed at new cars, purchased after the change in implemented. - Question on that - does this include the purchase of secondhand cars - i.e. if I were to get a 1 year old RS4 later this year then would I get hit with the new higher rate of road-tax even though it's not a new car? [/ QUOTE ] Yes you would have to pay the Higher Tax Charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] JamesB's taking up more space argument is a little silly too as how much bigger is the footprint of a "Chelsea Tractor" compared with what they would change to, an A6 for example? Its not a significant difference I know that much. [/ QUOTE ] I'm only speaking from experience. I think it might have something to do with the elevated driving position meaning a lower awareness of how close they are to neighbouring cars but, on the odd occasion I drive to work, I have far more issues with people in big SUVs (sorry, shouldn't say 4x4s ) causing delays than other cars with, as you rightly point out, fairly similar footprints. So the footprint might be similar but the space used by it seems to be larger. This is possibly exacerbated by the fact that, when you have to pull round a blocking car, it is far easier to go round an A6 (to use your example) as you can see 'through' it than something that totally blocks your line of sight. So, in effect, it once again reduces the amount of space available to other road users. A Reliant Robin has a smaller footprint than most other cars but I doubt many of us would deny that their experiences are that they somehow seem to occupy a lot of space on the roads Of course, this is a generalisation and it is fair to say that a lot of SUV drivers know the widths of their cars, that the same problem is caused by vans, lorries etc. but, at least round my way, these things are bought because they are fashionable, not because they are practical. Let's go round again. Oh, and I have never said I'm in favour of this tax, for the reasons that have already been pointed out above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssFour Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 I do agree with JamesB and his points about line of vision wrt 4x4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 I said this before, but on the TV they were stopping people at lights and asking what they thought of this, the amount of people who were all for it when they thought it was just big 4x4's was unreal, so it got the peoples vote?? Well, no! When the interviewer then pointed out there car also fell into this bracket they soon shut up, the government have been sneaky fecking cnuts about this and we need to start standing up for ourselves! The look on one guys face when he was told his little 1.8T Octavia Auto would fall into this bracket was priceless, but it also highlights the fact that I think there will be alot of shocked people out there soon, and hopefully we will actually do something by then?? the fact so many people on here, supposedly car nuts, are saying that it is a good thing when they don't actually realise they drive a car that will fall into this band just says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A woman in a freelander TD4 dropping her kids off is a f*ckwit, but same mum dropping her kids of in a 4.2 RS4 is uber ok and no doubt worthy of our respect [/ QUOTE ] Ah, but it wouldn't be the same mum and she would be uber ok. I think the branding of this as a tax on 4x4s is just to make the whole thing a little more palatable by playing into the hands of people's jealousy. However, I would have more of an issue with someone having a 4x4 for transporting children rather than an RS4. On the school run, they take up loads of space and have an effect on visibility (I'd far rather be helping my children across a road full of normal height vehicles than one full of 4x4s simply because I could see). And when you see them hammering down the M4 at 80, 90, 100 mph, it is a little scary. But then we've been here once or twice before on TSN [/ QUOTE ] I think most people's gripe with 4x4's is the sheer size of the things. I don't know about you guys - but i'm totally f*cked off with them taking soo much room up on public roads and car parks. It's hard enough getting parked up in even semi-busy area's\car parks these days - without these great big ugly 4x4's taking up 1 and half spaces cos the stupid idiot of a driver can't park it. If i'm really honest - I don't give a pigs arse as to what they're doing to the environment - because who ever can afford a Cayanne Turbo or a V8 Supercharged Range sport - will still be able to afford an extra £100 odd quid a year - I care more about what they are doing to society - which IMHO is strangling it with it's sheer size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Before you say anything, yes there are more pressing issues this Govt. should be trying to correct in order to give us a better society - like the countries education system, teen pregnancies, drinking culture, NHS, pensions...etc etc - and in comparison big 4x4's don't matter - but now were talking about them - they do, just that little big more ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A woman in a freelander TD4 dropping her kids off is a f*ckwit, but same mum dropping her kids of in a 4.2 RS4 is uber ok and no doubt worthy of our respect [/ QUOTE ] Ah, but it wouldn't be the same mum and she would be uber ok. I think the branding of this as a tax on 4x4s is just to make the whole thing a little more palatable by playing into the hands of people's jealousy. However, I would have more of an issue with someone having a 4x4 for transporting children rather than an RS4. On the school run, they take up loads of space and have an effect on visibility (I'd far rather be helping my children across a road full of normal height vehicles than one full of 4x4s simply because I could see). And when you see them hammering down the M4 at 80, 90, 100 mph, it is a little scary. But then we've been here once or twice before on TSN [/ QUOTE ] I think most people's gripe with 4x4's is the sheer size of the things. I don't know about you guys - but i'm totally f*cked off with them taking soo much room up on public roads and car parks. It's hard enough getting parked up in even semi-busy area's\car parks these days - without these great big ugly 4x4's taking up 1 and half spaces cos the stupid idiot of a driver can't park it. [/ QUOTE ] Thats my point too. Poor visibility in urban environments, big footprint, poor stopping distances and lousy pedestrian crash rating. Oh, and the fact they're usually driven badly, parked all over the pavement, and occupied by some dimwit woman on her mobile. I know its rather hypocritcal, as I'm a fan of sportscars, which aren't always eco-friendly either, but there's just something about urban 4X4s (X5 prime example) which gets right up my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Surely if we want to talk the problems of congestion in towns and emissions then the answer is simple - something along the lines of Japanese Kei cars! Few people in towns actually need a car of the size most drive. Keep engine sizes below say 1.0l. You could even work it so that the proposed AC/Smart roadster thing fell into that bracket. Thus road space is massively diminished, as are parking problems (might need new smaller spaces???) and economy would go through the roof. I could also buy myself a nice little coupe type thing (think Honda Beat or Suzuki Cappucino) with the blessing of the government. The thing that gets my goat is my chosen transport is more economical that a poxy Prius and contains far few nasty chemicals yet costs more in tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 139 cars in Band G 19 are 4x4's Some wicked spin being put on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssFour Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I said this before, but on the TV they were stopping people at lights and asking what they thought of this, the amount of people who were all for it when they thought it was just big 4x4's was unreal, so it got the peoples vote?? Well, no! When the interviewer then pointed out there car also fell into this bracket they soon shut up, the government have been sneaky fecking cnuts about this and we need to start standing up for ourselves! The look on one guys face when he was told his little 1.8T Octavia Auto would fall into this bracket was priceless, but it also highlights the fact that I think there will be alot of shocked people out there soon, and hopefully we will actually do something by then?? the fact so many people on here, supposedly car nuts, are saying that it is a good thing when they don't actually realise they drive a car that will fall into this band just says it all really. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with your sentiments. The media, I feel, are also complicit in this deceit. I am sure most of people who were asked about the tax increase read or heard about it beforehand. But because the media daubed it a tax on 4x4's, as per the governments bequest, they did not highlighted it will effect a lot of car users. Again the media have done the governments dirty work in fooling the public. Thus allowing them to do as they feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulboy Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Well, he has just said it: Increase to £300 pa then to £400 pa the following year. Thankd Gordon - you stupid tit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Dan Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Yep, but no mention of 2006 or 2001 on vehicles. No mention of LPG duty either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Cameron is funny! Superb piss take on Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Watching now .. its certainly a giggle to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Which channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 sky news.. over now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Thanks. I don't have Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Its on BBC Parliament... Menzies is speaking still. It will be on freeview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 It's also available on the internet too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattburrow Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Is the Increase on Band G. If so what about the Other Bands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Not got the details yet, 30% off the bottom bands and add 30% onto the top .. not sure about those inbetween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6tas Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Not got the details yet, 30% off the bottom bands and add 30% onto the top .. not sure about those inbetween. [/ QUOTE ] Band G up to 300 next year then 400 the year after. Band F goes up by ten pounds per year if i heard the idiot right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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