How much power do we really need ?

[CarMad]

Yes I know everyone will come back and say as much as possible. But recently I've been getting more and more frustrated that no matter how much power I have I just can't use it all.

You can't travel quickly on the motorway if you don't want points or to loose you license. Head down a nice country lane and everyone seems to have left the handbrake on they are traveling that slow. Every set of traffic lights these days that I used to enjoy flooring it from has a speed camera straight after it now or so it seems, or the speed limit is 50 or less.

I enjoy cars I really really do and I'm in the process of looking for a new one as soon as my new job is all sorted. But do I really need something as quick as a 330i or 330d or will a 325i of 325d do instead and I can pocket a load of cash.

Regardless of cost anyone else feel that they can no longer enjoy their car to the full anymore.

[Ari]

Oh definitely, especially down here in the SW. I had a Honda Prelude VTEC once, now that was a quick car. But you just couldn't use it anywhere.

Hence the nice big comfortable cabrio now. Fast enough to make progress, but no premium price for ususable performance.

[Atomic]

Imo if you cant enjoy your car you either have a crap car or the wrong car.

Most fun car I ever had was a Metro Turbo... wasnt particularly fast but it beat the pants of anything around at the time in terms of handling.

[DHA]

I have wondered this, especially with the German manufacturers having the power war. However in a 501bhp M5 it didn't seem too much. It added to the ability of the car to get out of danger quicker and keep making progress, however this was in reasonable traffic.

[RedRobin]

Excellent topic imo .

I get plenty of opportunity to exercise my Mk5 GTI (not just in Germany) and I have often thought that I simply don't need any more power to enjoy driving. At Revo Stage1 it would only cost me £50 to upgrade to Stage2 but I just don't need that extra power via FWD. The GTI is well balanced and great fun to drive fast as conditions allow, but also just to cruise gently.

[Thorburn]

I'd agree with this, but I'd say it for the reason it takes the fun away from driving having cars that are TOO capable.

The MX-5 only has 140bhp and pretty low limits and you can really enjoy it on the road without worrying about your license too much.

Similarly I took the Forester out for a proper run last night and while point to point its fairly slow the chassis is playful enough to make it fairly fun once you'd got used to the hilarious bodyroll and low geared steering.

Was even possible to kick the tail out of line with a lift on turn in then floor it to drag things out straight.

Lets face it, acceleration is all well and good but the real fun comes from a feeling of involvement which a well sorted chassis provides.

[Woppum]

I personaly love fast cars and do not have the same level of intrest in slower ones. There are always roads and roundabouts where you can have a bit of fun but you will never be able to use a fast car to its true potential on the road. The CSL is hard, fast and noisy and there is no escaping the fact your in something a bit special even when stuck in traffic. I get massive enjoyment out of it.

In responce to your initial question. I would go for the 330.

[Vagabond]

It's good to note RR, in your twilight years you appreciate driving a performance car 'sensibly' sometimes it's nice to know you have the power without actually using it.

That is what you meant by the term 'cruising' wasn't it?

[25thAnni]

i can see where your coming from with this. The car i have now is the most powerful motor i have owned... but i get so frustrated now with the amount of cars, speed camera's etc that i'm now thinking what’s the point?! My circumstances are that i live in the North East and commute to London for work and i'd prefer to drive for the convience more than anything else and the power isn't necessary. I too have been thinking why buy the bigger petrol/diesel when realistically i can't use it

As above i love my motor and what it has to offer but i can't get near to its potential so what’s the point? and i am a petrol head, driving is in my veins... i could just be getting older thou...... oh no

[Dave]

Power to me isn't driving at 200mph..

power is all about throttle response and needing /using that power at the right time.

Power means making that overtaking manevour quicker and safer. It means that having power is an added safety option, being able to drive out of a situation.

Regarding how much power you need?.. more than the majority

[Lee_]

Good topic, Its always nice to have some spare power for when you want to play. So like Dave says 'more than the majority.'

[CarMad]

The Sportback had enough power for most occasions but never really set my soul alight. It did everything well and nothing great really if you know what I mean.

But I've got my Dads motor to drive around at the moment, just a 325i SE E46 BMW and its great, handles really well and the steering feels alive compared to the Sportback. Nice noise and it shifts, performance figures might not show it but its as quick as the Sportback.

Which is why I asked the question, I could get a nice 325i M-Sport with plenty of toys for £25k or it would have to be almost £30 for a 330d for the same kit or maybe £27k for the 330i and about the same for the 325d.

So do I need all the extra performance, sometimes maybe but most of the time a nice noise and a good chassis are more than enough and lets face it running costs / fuel etc. are an ever increasing factor.

[RedRobin]

[ QUOTE ]

Power to me isn't driving at 200mph..

power is all about throttle response and needing /using that power at the right time.

Power means making that overtaking manevour quicker and safer. It means that having power is an added safety option, being able to drive out of a situation.

Regarding how much power you need?.. more than the majority

[/ QUOTE ]

....Spot on imo .

[RedRobin]

[ QUOTE ]

It's good to note RR, in your twilight years you appreciate driving a performance car 'sensibly' sometimes it's nice to know you have the power without actually using it.

That is what you meant by the term 'cruising' wasn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

....Yes it was what I meant by "cruising".

I don't think of myself as being "in my twilight years" !!

[Vagabond]

Sorry RR, i hope i didn't offend you in any way. A wee bit of Glaswegian humour i'm afraid

Seriously though, you're a cool dude. I admire you for choice of car and mods. I'll be 40 next year and people keep asking me when i'm going to grow up and stop buying performance cars. I always tell them the same thing, "It's better to burn out, than fade away."

[shark_90]

[ QUOTE ]

The Sportback had enough power for most occasions but never really set my soul alight. It did everything well and nothing great really if you know what I mean.

But I've got my Dads motor to drive around at the moment, just a 325i SE E46 BMW and its great, handles really well and the steering feels alive compared to the Sportback. Nice noise and it shifts, performance figures might not show it but its as quick as the Sportback.

Which is why I asked the question, I could get a nice 325i M-Sport with plenty of toys for £25k or it would have to be almost £30 for a 330d for the same kit or maybe £27k for the 330i and about the same for the 325d.

So do I need all the extra performance, sometimes maybe but most of the time a nice noise and a good chassis are more than enough and lets face it running costs / fuel etc. are an ever increasing factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why spend that much? My Golf was a brilliant buy for £3.5k, and the Audi 80 TDi is not fast by any means but handles surprisingly well and is great fun to drive because it's so involving.

I wouldn't dream of spending upwards of £15k on a car and even if it were something special I'd be hard pushed to go above £20k. Unless of course I was earning upwards of £60k or so.

[RedRobin]

No offence taken whatsoever, fastlad .

Safe Journeys, mate.

[CarMad]

I've got the money / budget to spend on a car so thats where its going. I could put it towards the mortgage or my pension but thats boring and they are well catered for.

My only alternative plan is to get something cheaper and get an Elise or similar, but I have certain resistance from my other half to this approach.

Its not so much what car or how much I'm spending so much its just that we all want faster and faster cars but the roads are so busy and the penalties for driving too fast now so high that I was wondering if others priorities had also changed.

[gizze]

I have now come to the conclusion that as long as you have enough power, and by that most of the 2 litre disels suffice, it really comes down to how it feels and the smile it puts on your face.

It was when we were arguing over who got to take the 1 series sport and who would have to have the S4 that I finally realised that power is nothing without the rest.

Out of all the cars I have owned the MX-5 comes out somewhere near the top, we paid £1800 for that car and drove it for two and half years and got £1200 back for it, it wasn't particuly fast, but it was great fun and really made you smile.

Having the power there though does make a difference, but I would rather buy a 6 month old top model than a new bottom model. Costs less and you get the benifits of having the power when you need it. You will always be wondering 'what if......?'

[RedRobin]

[ QUOTE ]

Its not so much what car or how much I'm spending so much its just that we all want faster and faster cars but the roads are so busy and the penalties for driving too fast now so high that I was wondering if others priorities had also changed.

[/ QUOTE ]

....Surely it's not about speed (as Dave posted earlier) but it's the performance - Acceleration, handling, braking - which is so much better on a higher performance car, and therefore safer.

With Power comes Responsibility.

[CarMad]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Its not so much what car or how much I'm spending so much its just that we all want faster and faster cars but the roads are so busy and the penalties for driving too fast now so high that I was wondering if others priorities had also changed.

[/ QUOTE ]

....Surely it's not about speed (as Dave posted earlier) but it's the performance - Acceleration, handling, braking - which is so much better on a higher performance car, and therefore safer.

With Power comes Responsibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I say faster I don't just mean the top speed but its the extra performance that comes with it to which acceleration is obviously a part.

[330dcoupe]

Interesting post, i was just thinking about something similar a few days ago. Why are car manufacturers making each generation/face lift car even more powerful than the previous car? Yes, the obvious answer to this question is to keep up with the competition - but how long can they keep this 'cat and mouse chase' up for before it gets to the point where cars will stop selling because people can no longer afford the insurance and running costs.

I personally think young people have it allot harder now, than say, 6-7 years ago when buying their 1st car. On the other hand, if they can afford it, they've never had it better!

Personally, i love power - the more the better - but your right in what you say, you can hardly use it nowadays...but for that little moment of when the car in front of you moves out of the way and you have a long, un-interruptible piece of motorway where you can squeeze the throttle and hear/feel your car go - it's magic.

[rhyds]

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting post, i was just thinking about something similar a few days ago. Why are car manufacturers making each generation/face lift car even more powerful than the previous car? Yes, the obvious answer to this question is to keep up with the competition - but how long can they keep this 'cat and mouse chase' up for before it gets to the point where cars will stop selling because people can no longer afford the insurance and running costs.

I personally think young people have it allot harder now, than say, 6-7 years ago when buying their 1st car. On the other hand, if they can afford it, they've never had it better!

Personally, i love power - the more the better - but your right in what you say, you can hardly use it nowadays...but for that little moment of when the car in front of you moves out of the way and you have a long, un-interruptible piece of motorway where you can squeeze the throttle and hear/feel your car go - it's magic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say it's partly that, and partly a case of cars getting heavier, and more power being needed to keep the same performance

[v6tas]

[ QUOTE ]

Power to me isn't driving at 200mph..

power is all about throttle response and needing /using that power at the right time.

Power means making that overtaking manevour quicker and safer. It means that having power is an added safety option, being able to drive out of a situation.

Regarding how much power you need?.. more than the majority

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldnt agree more, i had a couple of occasions to be grateful of the power under my right foot last week when travelling in and out of Leeds. Twice i would have had a prang or near miss had it not been for the dropped gear and manouver out of trouble due to toss*r drivers. Under powered cars are alot more dangerous IMHO

[Golfer]

[ QUOTE ]

...Surely it's not about speed (as Dave posted earlier) but it's the performance - Acceleration, handling, braking - which is so much better on a higher performance car, and therefore safer.

With Power comes Responsibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is as close a statement as I can relate to, I am in that enveable position to buy any fast car I like, but it's use is fast becoming "limited", with rising fuel costs and increased "SCAMMERA VANS" and slip-road layabouts with hand held lasers, what chance to enjoy these road rockets?.

Yes they are safer and with high power can get you out of trouble, but without responsibility can get you right "in" big trouble.

I am, if honest, paying through the nose for a two minute blast up to speed, or an afterdark risky trail blaze

I don't think there is a car out there at the moment to replace my A8 4.2TDI Sport chipped, with 378BHP and 785NM it is bullit fast, and economical (compaired to petrol).

BUT it rarly gets it's head.

Where next?