TP27 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 The B5 RS4 was my original dream car - Client bought one new in Nogaro Blue, must have been 1994 or similar and it was a magic car - drove it a lot and I suppose I never lost the urge to own one, albeit the B7 version in the end! Nogaro Blue was 'better' than Sprint Blue to me - Sprint just did not cut the mustard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 B5 Audi RS4 came out around 200 and was built in small numbers Mmm 422 approx? It just looks phat! Engine was cosworth 2.7 V6 Bi-turbo 380ps. What a car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Back to the RS3 and the supposed invincibility of quattro in wintry conditions. Some of you may recall I had an Impreza STI hatch a few years ago. That had 330bhp through a superior 4wd system, running on 'only' 18 inch wheels and Dunlop high performance summer tyres. And you know what? It was absolutely fecking terrible in the snow. The RS3, on fatter 19 inch rims and summer tyres will certainly be no better and it'll probably be worse. The only advantage 4wd on a normal car with summer tyres will give over any two wheel drive car is initial traction to get moving on a slippy surface. That's it. And therein lies the all too common misconception whatever the conditions. 4wd gives you better traction. It does not give you better grip. If you don't know the difference you probably shouldn't be driving a performance car. Your only route to better grip in the winter is winter tyres. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Alright, you feckin smartarse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 But what about putting winter tyres on a 4x4? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) One of the contractors here has just bought a 2 yr old X5 (permies can't afford such toys...........) and it's in white. Hes' had it less than a week and he's had it washed twice. It's filthy now. However, he does drive down the Lower Luton Road which is a tree lined dark dingy road which never sees the sun and loves filling up with water. He should get if professionally detailed and protected with a decent product. It makes a significant difference. Edited January 28, 2015 by NewNiceMrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Auto express did a test last winter of winter tyres driving up a ski slope. The 2wd did very well and far far better than the 4wd on summers and not that far behind the 4wd on winters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-bmw Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Riz, But none of you 4wd'ers ever do it, you think you are invincible in your quattro world & then we winter tyre'd rwd bms just pass you all day/every day. Did it today in Leeds several times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 But what about putting winter tyres on a 4x4? What E-bmw said. But hypothetically ( ) exactly the same as 2wd vs 4wd on summers. i.e. better traction. Anyone who thinks 4wd = better braking will still slide inexorably into the nearest obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 What about buying a RWD car with summer tyres, then buying winter wheels and tyres....and not putting them on.... ...and never having a single issue on the roads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 You realise they only actually become a waste of money when you still haven't put them on and you get hopelessly, er, "parked" in the middle of nowhere. Until then they're insurance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-bmw Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 NNMM, that would be just madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasdrury Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Riz, But none of you 4wd'ers ever do it, you think you are invincible in your quattro world & then we winter tyre'd rwd bms just pass you all day/every day. Did it today in Leeds several times! Ahem.... I'm a quattro'r and have winters on. And I'm in leeds too. Still snowing now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm in Cheshire, with a 3 series on bloody stupid great fat 19s and (having checked) disconcertingly little tread on my summer rears. So if this 'ere snow sticks I'll mostly be working from home tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-bmw Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) You, sir,(chasdrury) are officially a minority! Edited January 28, 2015 by E-bmw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Being in Yorkshire and owning a car? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 What E-bmw said. But hypothetically ( ) exactly the same as 2wd vs 4wd on summers. i.e. better traction. Anyone who thinks 4wd = better braking will still slide inexorably into the nearest obstacle. True and better traction also works when decelerating and is assisted by the shifting of the torque between the wheels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Did someone mention weight transfer under braking? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 So for you I'd describe it as active balancing of deceleration forces not just between the front and rear but also side to side 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 True and better traction also works when decelerating and is assisted by the shifting of the torque between the wheels. Balanced by the extra momentum from the weight of that 4wd system. Possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-bmw Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 There is a thought in there somewhere though. Do electronically managed traction control systems (available on most good two and four wheel drive cars) muddy the waters somewhat? (So to speak). Or do the electronics merely work within the physics boundaries set by the number of driven wheels? Whatever I'm driving, the thing I hate most on snow and ice is going downhill. Well not so much the going down as the (not) stopping at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-bmw Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 But isn't that the same as falling from a 20 storey building? It isn't the 20 storey drop that kills you, it is the sudden stop at the end of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yep. Not awfully keen on doing that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 The problem with the electronics is that they cut power when you need it most when you start to slide a little which is why sometimes you need to turn off DTC for example when safety says you should have it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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