Scotty Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Hi Scotty Sorry its hard to beleive you have a genuine interest in my tuning when you refer to me ''gods gift to tuning''......little bit rude and unfair I would say. As promised a dyno will be posted, but my customers rarely request one,(not even the 2 chaps off here Sharky and Gerry, who are obviously into their cars, and over the moon with my work, I never asked them to start a thread especially to say how pleased they are) so please be patient, and I'll post a whole new thread with results on it. [/ QUOTE ] Great news. The quote was a deliberate attempt to get some sort of response. I apologise if it offended but it did do what I intended. If I wasn't genuinely interested I wouldn't waste my time posting. Look at all my previous posts/comments. All have been asking for more info. Hardly the way someone works if they're just spoiling for a fight. [ QUOTE ] Interesting read this. To add my two penneth I'd suggest giving Will the chance to post plots on the TSN forum as I for one would be interested to see what the results are. [/ QUOTE ] 100% agree. Will's now said for the 3rd time that he'll post up some graphs/info. I guess it's put up or shut up time. I think chances have been given ever since he came on the forum. p.s. Dan_emaps - why wouldn't a BMW 330 owner want to see the graph? It could be me but I'd always want to see it whatever car I owned. It's like buying a new hifi and not asking what power the amp is rated at or buying a new car and not asking how big the engine is....at least it is in my world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Interesting read this. [/ QUOTE ] Yes I've go to agree it is. But I'd like to poke my trunk in now too......... Would somebody be able to explain to me why REVO seem to be able to offer Serial port Re-Maps with out a dyno session, and no graph..........? No one ever seems to question Revo, do they? Half the Audi's on their website have no graph or the wrong one posted. My 190ps 1.8t is one case in question - they show a B5 1.8t for my car! For the S4 V8 you also get claims for 12-15 bhp and 15-20 lbft....... And NO graph! I know there are people who’ve had their 190ps A4’s re-mapped by REVO, how do they and other customers know what they are getting,if they've used a Revo dealer without a dyno...............? Or indeed AMD or any other tuner who offers serial re-maps without a power check. Maybe for some people the 'bum dyno' is good enough for them and a quoted figure on a website is all they need to go blagging down the pub to their mates? So it's quite feasible that some people don't ask for a graph and will take the tuners word for it. As I said just me poking my trunk in................ BUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I've seem some REVO graphs from real owners so I guess that's why I'm not asking for them. With regards Audi, both of their cars that I've bought did have graphs available before. Even if they hadn't then I'm able to test drive them to see if I like them. This isn't always the case with tuners although as I posted earlier some do let you try. I agree though. I really don't understand why someone would let an undemonstrated product/service be applied to their car (often worth a whole heap of cash) without any proof it does what it says on the tin. Either people are more trusting than I am or they're more naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcs_80 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Maybe they just want a car that runs well and faster, for as long as they own it, as apposed to looking at a dyno chart? What you have to understand is that very few customers know what they are looking for or at with a graph. I know you have seen some before, and obviously understand them, but very few do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Maybe they just want a car that runs well and faster, for as long as they own it, as apposed to looking at a dyno chart? What you have to understand is that very few customers know what they are looking for or at with a graph. I know you have seen some before, and obviously understand them, but very few do. [/ QUOTE ] Precisely, the point I was trying to get across Will. The average numpty I deal with every day can't read, let alone be able to understand a power and torque graph!! I wouldn't expect a tuner to post graphs on a public forum, I know how bitchy the tuning game is. I made plenty of calls before I re-mapped my car.I spoke to my tuner and was happy with what I was told about the re-map and what he could do for the car, I then made a 950odd mile round trip in the end........... I'm sure Will is making a living re-mapping cars and as we know has some happy customers on this very forum. Just like AMD, Star , Revo , Jabba and MRC etc etc...... BUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Disregard the numpty who can't read, or the people who can't understand a graph (whoever they are!) if someone want's to see dyno figures before they commit to spending money on their 20 grand car, just bloody let 'em see it. Unless it's a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Maybe they just want a car that runs well and faster, for as long as they own it, as apposed to looking at a dyno chart? What you have to understand is that very few customers know what they are looking for or at with a graph. I know you have seen some before, and obviously understand them, but very few do. [/ QUOTE ] I can understand people not understanding them. I guess if they're happy giving people money and being naive then that's up to them. We all know (or perhaps not if people can't read graphs) that you can get big peak numbers by going for silly boost of turbos. I'm sure people have had this and have been very happy with the power gains but for how long. It's all a balance between performance, longevity, fuelling, air intake etc etc etc and in the world where people compete on peak numbers then I do wonder how much the longevity factor is being compromised. At the end of the day it's buyer beware. I'm just stunned that their appear to be so many people willing to go for it. Perhaps it's coz they're so naive they don't even appreciate the risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 But surely if someone is selling you something that claims will give you an additional 40bhp (for example) but in reality is only giving you an additional 20bhp you'd want to know about it. Of course the car will feel faster but it's not what you've been sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcs_80 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'll tell you what, get another tuning company, (not their customers but them) to post their graph up on the forums, get them to proove their work, then I'll do it. As you say Scotty, everyone has their own preferences, so why post 1 result up here? The problem with forums is you get alot of people who know it all, and like getting their name across the threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I don't think Scotty's posting one result. Rather most people would like to "see the goods" before they buy Surely it wouldn't cost too much to get a couple of dyno runs done If you really feel that way about people on forums then probably you should go elsewhere rather than flaming knowledgable and longstanding members who are just trying asking common sensical questions about the products you are selling. The fact you have been evasive and off hand in your replies leads me to think that you don't need the additional business. In this case I wish you well but i still maintain that people want to know what they are buying before they buy it! If you had a car worth £10k, £20k or more would you really spend a couple of hundred quid with someone who cannot elaborate what they are selling? I don't think the requests are unresonable, so come on proove scotty wrong and show us how your software delivers it's power, and torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Would somebody be able to explain to me why REVO seem to be able to offer Serial port Re-Maps with out a dyno session, and no graph..........? No one ever seems to question Revo, do they? [/ QUOTE ] I think that has to do with the fact that they've been around a while and lots of people run the REVO remap, as well as the fact that they have a shed load of resellers in the UK alone. Big Boys Toys (who I remember from the good old days of owning a Beetle too long ago) are one example, and run their race R32 with REVO software. AmD are another case in point - again loads of customers and they've been around for a long time - no, I'm not saying that they're all happy with the levels of service they've received from AmD - that's a whole different thread! The issue here is that Will has entered an already competitive market, competing with some bigger companies who have a long standing market presence. It's bloody hard work breaking a new business into an existing market and you have to start somewhere. When you're a small fish in a big pond (don't take that the wrong way, Will!), then normally the only way to get people's attention is to demonstrate that the service you provide is either unique, or extremely good value, which Will's service seems to be from the various threads I've read on TsN. If Will is providing a remapping service for £200-£300 (IIRC) then the cost of getting a dyno test done at £60 or so a throw is going to eat into his profit margin on that one remapping job, but I would eat the profit on several remapping jobs and get dyno tests done on a few cars and use the information, along with testimonials and case studies to market the sh*t out of the business. I can totally see Scotty's point on this, but I can also see Will's point as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 But he's using someone elses software and mapping! They've already done the dyno work, and the graphs will surely be available. Why, when handed a golden opportunity to impress the masses of TSN, does it become a big issue to actually show them to someone who's a. interested in his product b. asked to see the stuff numerous times and c. probably now not going to use Will for his remap ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcs_80 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Its not a big issue, but certain people are making it one. When I have the dyno charts, I'll post them. I tune anything with a ECU on the road, not all VAG cars, so to everyone here......once again Ill post them when I have them, until then Scotty, please be patient All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminTDI Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I do agree with everyone else here that you should produce dyno graphs Will. However would everyone give him a break!? He said he's going to post some graphs when he gets hold of them! Give him a chance, the poor sod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Its not a big issue, but certain people are making it one. When I have the dyno charts, I'll post them. I tune anything with a ECU on the road, not all VAG cars, so to everyone here......once again Ill post them when I have them, until then Scotty, please be patient All the best [/ QUOTE ] Nice one mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_G Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Its not a big issue, but certain people are making it one. When I have the dyno charts, I'll post them. I tune anything with a ECU on the road, not all VAG cars, so to everyone here......once again Ill post them when I have them, until then Scotty, please be patient All the best [/ QUOTE ] Will, could I suggest to maintain parity between you and the other tuning companies that you PM the plots instead of posting. I for one am interested, ScoTTy is, DJBS4 is, and a few other S4 drivers, most because theyu would seriously consider using your services, not just for curiosity. AS for the others, I haven't gone to REVO even with everyone's praises becasue they have not produced a plot for me to look at. Thus far I have found AMD does but when I heard of Will I thought great idea as it would save me huge expense in getting to AMD and paying for their facilities. Hence my interest. I will say again however I am extremely nervous of damaging a £30K car since that is more than half my annual income and that's why I would like to see some genuine results. If references were also available of S4 drivers with the remap that would be better still, however I know Shark_90 is happy with hsi remap and had no problems so it alays my fears somewhat. I may not be able to accurately read a plot but I have basic enough knowledge to distinguish whether the remap does make a significant difefrence in the right way. Look forward to hearing from you Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I think that has to do with the fact that they've been around a while and lots of people run the REVO remap, as well as the fact that they have a shed load of resellers in the UK alone. Big Boys Toys (who I remember from the good old days of owning a Beetle too long ago) are one example, and run their race R32 with REVO software. AmD are another case in point - again loads of customers and they've been around for a long time - no, I'm not saying that they're all happy with the levels of service they've received from AmD - that's a whole different thread! [/ QUOTE ] Good post and some words of wisdom there mook. Unfortunately, Revo and AMD even with all of their years of experience couldn’t convince me to part with a penny. Like I’ve said Revo can’t even get the right graph up for my car and I’m not going down the AMD road here........ My veiw is Scotty is being deliberately provocative and argumentative for what seems to be no reason at all. He’s already got his S4 as far as AMD can take it without internal mod’s, so as far as I can see, he isn’t a ‘potential’ customer at all. I always thought the TyreSmoke regulars were above that and, 'COUGH' AS.net was where people picked on you. I see people proudly post up graphs and then every Tom, Dick and Harry will give his expert opinion on why they’re a load of bull...... Asking how their tuner got such an amazing amount of power with such a smooth curve and what spec turbo/parts were used, etc etc. It's a no win situation - Laughed at if the power is low and rubbished if it’s high. It's pretty obvious to me Will isn’t going to post up any graphs or give us any clues as to what software he’s using and as such, I can't see where this thread is going...... Like I said on page one - Tuning is a bitchy business and this thread proves it. Good evening gentlemen. BUB Edit - Oh yeah and give Will a break peeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_G Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Steady on Bub, some of us are genuine, no tarring with the same brush please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Tuning is a bitchy business and this thread proves it. [/ QUOTE ] it certainly is.. especially when some of the tuners can be bitchy themselves. I love threads like this. No-one ever wins and everyone thinks they've got all the right answers and experience. My opinion: be careful who tunes your car - especially unknowns.. For all we know, he could just be a gardener! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Steady on Bub, some of us are genuine, no tarring with the same brush please? [/ QUOTE ] No tarring with the same brush , PG. It was just how the thread seemed to me....... BUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Tuning is a bitchy business and this thread proves it. [/ QUOTE ] it certainly is.. especially when some of the tuners can be bitchy themselves. I love threads like this. No-one ever wins and everyone thinks they've got all the right answers and experience. My opinion: be careful who tunes your car - especially unknowns.. For all we know, he could just be a gardener! [/ QUOTE ] Yep, that's my take on it too SiTa BUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] For all we know, he could just be a gardener! [/ QUOTE ] Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 are you thinking what I'm thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazthecab Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I had my Picasso remapped from 90bhp to a claimed 120bhp, the guy came to my house, plugged in his P.C and Robert was your mothers brother. I test drove it and handed over my £200 more than satisfied, personally I didnt care about graphs etc, I knew by driving it that there was far more power than there had been. Worked for me but what do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have driven Shark_90's car and it is very quick but would just like to see howmuch bhp/torque and the delivery characteristics on paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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