neilharley1 Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I am and have been a total atheist for many years (ironically enough) since about the time I lost a cousin at 18 who was knocked down and killed by a drunk driver. I am intrigued and would be interested in hearing other peoples take on this highly emotive subject. Considering the last 2 threads on here, I find it impossible to understand people's beliefs in such an almighty 'being'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steffiraf Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Am afraid i'm with you Neil on this one. How can 'something' that professes 'goodwill to all men' allow some of the things that happen in this world? Unless 'He' shows his face, 'He'will be a figment of other peoples imagination IMO. I've no doubt that believing in 'God' gives some people a lot of comfort, in times of stress, but I need something 'real' to believe in. I personally dont like religion, in whatever guise it comes in. Each to their own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilharley1 Posted August 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Steff. I apologise in advance for this, as I probably shouldn't ask at this time however. I noticed on your original post that you asked everyone to "pray to god" for a full recovery. Bearing in mind what you have now said, I can only presume that it was just a figure of speech? How many of us do the same without realising? Apologies once again Steffi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 I wish people took the moral values and respect that's preached in religion in order to be good citizens and that all the devisive baggage could be left behind. Religion just causes so many battles/wars/disputes with everyone trying to convince everyone else that they're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steffiraf Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Sharkwright - Am not offended at all. It is just a figure of speech. How else can you say it? Please hope against hope for all you are worth? Just doesnt sound right. I may just add here, that my Nana, who i have been to see today, is a catholic, and believes very much. She is of the opinion that 'He' will make the right decision in what happens to Paul. I hope her faith is justified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 A VERY difficult question and one I suppose you two have more to question at the than many of the others of us on here (for all the wrong reasons ). I suppose that as there is no definitive answer then there is no right or wrong one, even though it would often appear that there should be, given the events we experience. However, I suppose it's usually a process of intellect, upbringing, life events/experiences and a million other things. I have a tiny understanding of how you both feel at this moment (and I mean small) as I look at the traumatic events that I've been party to and how that can make you feel and then try an compare them to what you are going through at the moment. A couple of years ago, one of my cousins ended up being buried by his parents as a result of an innocent motorbike crash that was simply the result of a chain of individually innocent events. He was a top bloke who was a good, experienced and not silly rider, pretty religious and always looked out for other less fortunate people (as an example did a charity bike ride across India to raise money for the most poor over there). Just to really round things off, he left an unborn child (who entered the world fine, thankfully) but now his wife is also ill to a potentially fatal degree It's definitely this kind of thing that either reinforces any doubts about religion or sows the seeds of doubt, along with the truly terrible behaviour of so many people who claim to be 'representatives' of this God or that. Plus spending too much time in a mortuary with lots of bodies and at the same time lives At the same time , we have science. This may or may not be a translation guide for the language of the universe or existence (whatever that may be) but seems to be sensible to our thought process. However, the biggest problem with science is that what makes sense today is tomorrow's simple gibberish. However close we think we are, we are at the same time as far away as we ever were, if for no other reason than thinking about these issues in such a restrained fashion - plus most of the potential interesting scientific explanations are little more than believing what we want to believe and making things fit that ethos. The other big thing we have is the basic defence mechanism - we don't understand, we don't like and we have an overriding drive for self preservation. This also makes us chase some kind of explanation for the things we don't really understand, might not understand in our lifetimes and may never understand (whether by luck, circumstance or design). Well, after the mid level ramble, what do I believe - fence sitting answer is both and neither for all of the reasons available. I'd like to think I'm pretty intelligent, even if I'm crap at IQ tests. Every bone/cell/whatever in my body thinks that there probably isn't the benevolent God like figure that is perpetrated by pretty much every religion going (to me that's just the self preservation mixed in with social control and power over the less enlightened) but at the same time, even though science and maths tells me there is no spoon, I can't help thinking that the same science and maths tells me that this isn't just it and we aren't definitely just a freak of probability and theoretical physics. Thing is, I just can't explain exactly why , just can hope like every other soul within our current group of experience. Anyone still awake yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 All societies make a big thing about the religious ceremonies of marriage, birth and death- the foundations being that whatever God is worshipped- There is a God. Well, I don't believe it to be so. Despite years of education at a Convent prep, years of Sunday school and years of being press ganged by parents to accept that there is a God. It could be constructively argued that a God is not a physical form, that God is the keeper of souls- who knows and as long as your prepared for the end of your life, does it matter, does it change anything . Well fortunately we do not have the ability for our souls to jaunt in to a future period when you leave this earth to test the theory of 'God v none'. I retain the thought that life is a one shot experience and that's all you get folks- so do it well . The nearest I have ever go to acceptance of a God is the hope that should he actually exist in the spiritual form then amends will be made, for the sins against his sons and daughters. The same mantra is a key foundation of the Buddhist belief that doing good in the here and now will be rewarded in the afterlife. Doing bad will be punished. A nice thought and if ever I was to accept the potential for afterlife action, I would like it to be so. Thus all the killers, guilty persons that are not punished in this life, will be doomed to an afterlife of purgatory . Finally, I would say to anyone who has experienced recent death, that death is one of the things the churches and religions of the world are very good with. In the context of assisting with grieve, pain and dispear, religion can (and often is) a great help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 I don't believe in religion at all, but I don't belittle anyone or question anyone who does. For me, as a kid, there were far too many unanswered questions about God. Being science/technology minded didn't help either, as all I did was argue with those saying God created the planet, when I was told by the science teacher about the big bang theory! Perhaps I don't look deep enough into it, but I really cannot accept religion at all. Certainly in today's society it just seems to cause more problems sadly through arguments. I do get asked why I celebrate Christmas, but I guess even religious people will understand and accept that it's become too commercialised now and has lost it's true meaning. To me, it's just a time where the whole family gets together. I think I use phrases as a figure of speech when really I shouldn't, but I just can't be religious no matter what. Maybe that will change as I get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerpalmer Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 I think religion is a matter of faith, rather than a god. of all the religions, are we worshiping the same god, or none? From a science point of view, it would be hard to prove a god exists ( sorry if this offends anyone). I do admire anyone with a strong faith and a belief. Personally i would like to "believe", but all the terrible things that happen to decent good people, makes me think that there cannot possibly be a "god" or he (or she) would prevent all these terrible thing. Completely agree with Chris5, life is a single innings, so get as many runs as possible and enjoy it as much as you can. You do not have to change the world (that would need a miracle), but life is not a rehearsal. Enjoy life while you can, you never know what is round the corner....possible a large artic on the wrong side of the round. so be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 God - an analogy being a word that allows someone to get through a difficult period via a belief that there is a genuine and divine inspiration for all the bad things in the world. Otherwise known as masking the harsh reality and bitter aftertaste the world can often give, and making life somewhat easier for a person when they most need it. Each to their own, but I don't buy it. Not for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 I very much struggle to believe in the concept of god but at the same time, also like to think that there is someone to 'try' and call upon in times of need. I often believe that 'we' on 'earth' are just an experiment created by another life-form on a further planet far more advanced than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesK Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 I'm afraid I'm an unbeliever. I don't believe if there was a god he could look down and allow what is going on to carry on.If he was such a higher authority then why is he taking the good? Steffi and Sharkwright I feel for you and cannot express how much I'm sorry this has happened to you. I lost both my grandfathersin the same month, and because of circumststance could not go to their funerals, which made me an unbeliver. On top of that I lost 2 of my closest friends before they hit 25! (I was best man for one only a year earlier) One died 3 months after his daughter was born. How can people say that he's a good being when he takes a devoted dad away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulboy Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 I have no idea if there is a God - but I really despise most religion. And if there is a God, religion suggests that we should all pray to change events (save the world or whatever). So lets get this straight - here is a being who is capable of changing terrible events - but will only do it if we all beg enough. Not for me thanks. Now Buddhism looks more up my street from the little I know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_d Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I wish people took the moral values and respect that's preached in religion in order to be good citizens and that all the devisive baggage could be left behind. Religion just causes so many battles/wars/disputes with everyone trying to convince everyone else that they're right. [/ QUOTE ] I totally agree with the above. I try to live my life by the 'christian' way (i.e. trying to be a good person by being kind to others) without actually believing in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think its pretty stupid of religious people to expect god to fix everything for them. (if there is a god) If I was god, and made myself a little planet with lots of people on it, as some kind of social experiment, then of course I wouldn't interfere, otherwise my experiment wouldn't be valid. I've no idea if there is or isn't a god, but it doesn't make sense to assume if there is one, he/she will interfere with things on a regular basis. Whilst I'm waffling, I also think that if I was god, I'd be pretty upset if I'd made millions of people who insisted on wasting their time and praying to me all day - surely there's so many other more useful things they could be doing than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I think its pretty stupid of religious people to expect god to fix everything for them. (if there is a god) [/ QUOTE ] That's what most non-religious people seem to think God is there for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Just what I was going to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobby Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Most women think i am a god, but thats another story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I wish people took the moral values and respect that's preached in religion in order to be good citizens and that all the devisive baggage could be left behind. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed [ QUOTE ] Religion just causes so many battles/wars/disputes with everyone trying to convince everyone else that they're right. [/ QUOTE ] I think people use religion as an excuse for all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyro Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Ive been brought up to belive in god as my parents are religious. But my parents have always taught me never to have blind faith in god to help you out of problems, or to help you out in life, you should pray to god to help guide you, as god won't help you if you don't help yourself. I remember when i was a kid and I used to get into trouble I used to pray to god to get me out of it, as I got older I realised I didnt need to rely on prayer as much but on belief in myself to get myself out of trouble. I dont beleve in god as much as I used to, but i have got alot of respect for people who have a strong belief in god as it takes alot determination and belief to really think there is a god and constantly worship them. For all those people who do worship god dont think he/she can get you out of trouble, cause they cant....i learnt that the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Dont believe in anything. I sort of (in total honesty) find it quite hard to understand why people do. I can see that the majority of believers do it for comfort reasosn - but then there are alot of clever people with their feet on the ground who also believe. It does slightly baffle me - but then I know everyone is entitled to their view or beliefs and ill be damned if I look down my nose at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I know everyone is entitled to their view or beliefs and ill be damned if I look down my nose at it. [/ QUOTE ] exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think its pretty stupid of religious people to expect god to fix everything for them. (if there is a god) [/ QUOTE ] That's what most non-religious people seem to think God is there for... [/ QUOTE ] So what is he there for, and why do religious people pray to him to change stuff if that's not what it's about? As to myself, do I believe that there's this big chap who created the world in 7 days, and then created Adam and Eve in his own image and put them in a beautiful garden and then put forbidden fruit in it and then threw them out after the snake told them to eat it and then that's how mankind developed right up intil it went bad at which point God flooded the world completely except for Noah and this big Ark with two of each animal in it, etc etc? Err, no. I do agree though that people should be allowed to believe whatever they wish, God, the tooth fairy, santa claus, whatever. It does seem to me though that most (all probably) people who are religious were brought up to be that way. I can't think of anyone who was brought up to have a completely neutral view and then thought "oh, that religious business seems to make perfect sense, I'll believe in that whole heartedly for the rest of my life". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 There are plenty of scientists who have done just that Ari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] There are plenty of scientists who have done just that Ari. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting! Is that because of research they've done in science? or just a personal decision they have taken? I often wonder what would happen if someone (e.g. a scientist) did discover categoric proof of the existence of god. Maybe the government would hide it, or use it to their advantage? I think it's quiet dangerous for everyone to think they'll be forgiven for all their sins - it may make people rob banks on a daily basis and then say sorry! Or it may make remove crime completely - especially if someone showed pictures of hell on TV for all to see. That would be a scary sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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